This is going to be so weird that I have to put the question to this great message board that is overflowing with gentlemanly scholarly knowledge and understanding - a place where erudite logic and analysis are the norm.
Tell me what you think it will be like with so many teams in the SEC, two of them being Texas and Oklahoma.
Will there be some sort of "revival" of the old Southwest Conference rivalries, like Texas and TAMU? Arkansas vs Texas and TAMU?
Do you folks remember the Southwest Conference? You guys are mostly young and it might be before your time.
My good buddy Bill Pusch used to pontificate a while back about what it was like as a Hog fan of the Razorbacks in the Southwest Conference as opposed to the SEC, he said that he missed the old SWC rivalries. He lived up there around Mountain Home, Arkansas.
IMHO it's going to be really strange and I don't know what to expect, other than I will hate both Texas teams and that much is certain.
The whole conference is going to be different without two big divisions. It's going to be more like the NFL where you primarily follow your team and your permanent opponents, and the rest is just there
Quote from: bigpig on Nov 14, 2023, 11:28 PMThe whole conference is going to be different without two big divisions. It's going to be more like the NFL where you primarily follow your team and your permanent opponents, and the rest is just there
Isn't Mizzou our permanent now? I don't give a shit about them now until we play them, why would I "follow" them during the season?
One could say that With those two coming in we're more behind the 8 ball than we ever were in SWC. At least there we could compete despite the officials. We got pissed on by the sec before A&M and Missouri came in (losing the post-thanksgiving day game,countless officiating screw jobs), and its never gotten better. The SEC made sure that we, in the words of Duane the Rock Johnson, "know your role and shut your mouth."
Unless the HY hires a straight up killer to replace Pittman, it'll never change. 4-5 more years of crap. Then it'll start again.
Conference expansions are the end of college sports as we know it. The conferences are too big and are only going to become more top heavy. The SEC will only get two playoff spots each year and those spots will be taken up by Bama, Oklahoma, Texas and Georgia. The complaint over the last 40 years is that the same teams win every year. That is only going to get amplified. Add to it NIL and 99% of the programs are going to be sitting in the back of the bus.
The good news is Texas seems to wreck every conference they are in so I give the new SEC 20 years before it falls apart.
Quote from: BleedinRed on Nov 15, 2023, 08:06 AMConference expansions are the end of college sports as we know it. The conferences are too big and are only going to become more top heavy. The SEC will only get two playoff spots each year and those spots will be taken up by Bama, Oklahoma, Texas and Georgia. The complaint over the last 40 years is that the same teams win every year. That is only going to get amplified. Add to it NIL and 99% of the programs are going to be sitting in the back of the bus.
The good news is Texas seems to wreck every conference they are in so I give the new SEC 20 years before it falls apart.
Not sure how they can limit the SEC to 2/12 spots when there are only going to be four real conferences.
But I agree, it's just going to be more of same. The final four will always end up some combination of Alabama/UGA/LSU/Michigan/Ohio State/Texas/OU/Clemson/FSU, with an occasional sacrificial lamb making it out of the first round. The only difference is you'll have someone like Ole Miss, Auburn, Kansas State, or Wisconsin sneaking in with a 9-3 record every now and them and being summarily dispatched by a blue blood.
Heard a comment yesterday about the SEC and B1G soon becoming "professional college football" and the rest of the conferences being "traditional college football".
We're going to need boosters and coaches that embrace professional college football.
Quote from: BleedinRed on Nov 15, 2023, 08:06 AMThe good news is Texas seems to wreck every conference they are in so I give the new SEC 20 years before it falls apart.
LOL!
The rest is spot-on good analysis, too.
Cheers.
I'm excited about it. I'm 45 and we've never had a rivalry with anyone in the SEC that compares to TX, even if it's a bigger deal to us than it is to them. I live in Austin so selfishly I'm happy that there will be games here. The UT alums that I run around with are excited to be playing us again in every sport. They also know they're about to get bitch slapped with a hard dose of reality by the rest of the league.
It will solidify our position in the bottom third of SEC football, though the last decade probably did that already. I can't wait to see Muss get it going against TX but I'm more excited about the additions for baseball than anything. The SEC may be more dominant in baseball than any other conference in any other sport with TX and OU coming in.
Wait until the Women's College World Series is all SEC teams
Quote from: Jean Lafitte on Nov 14, 2023, 10:39 PMThis is going to be so weird that I have to put the question to this great message board that is overflowing with gentlemanly scholarly knowledge and understanding - a place where erudite logic and analysis are the norm.
Tell me what you think it will be like with so many teams in the SEC, two of them being Texas and Oklahoma.
Will there be some sort of "revival" of the old Southwest Conference rivalries, like Texas and TAMU? Arkansas vs Texas and TAMU?
Do you folks remember the Southwest Conference? You guys are mostly young and it might be before your time.
My good buddy Bill Pusch used to pontificate a while back about what it was like as a Hog fan of the Razorbacks in the Southwest Conference as opposed to the SEC, he said that he missed the old SWC rivalries. He lived up there around Mountain Home, Arkansas.
IMHO it's going to be really strange and I don't know what to expect, other than I will hate both Texas teams and that much is certain.
Y'all will be okay. LSU produces enough instate talent to always be a contender. I don't think we're going to fare as well.
As someone old enough to grow up in the SWC, we really only hated Texas(we dominated everyone else) and Baylor(Grant Teaff was a dick). I think Mississippi was hated more when we were in the SWC and played them every year.
Quote from: Lurk on Nov 15, 2023, 12:37 PMAs someone old enough to grow up in the SWC, we really only hated Texas(we dominated everyone else) and Baylor(Grant Teaff was a dick). I think Mississippi was hated more when we were in the SWC and played them every year.
Back during the SWC days, Arkansas and Mississippi played an out-of-conference football game every year? Like a permanent opponent? I had no idea.
I think it's possible we benefit from this in Texas recruiting as we are at the "Big boys table" and Texas media will now be dominated by SEC coverage, I think it hurts the likes of TCU, Okie State, Baylor, Tech, etc as the Big XII is really a second tier conference.
Ideally, I'd like us to play the Texas schools and keep playing Ole Miss and LSU as these are all teams we have history with. I'd rather not be paired up with Missouri.
I don't get a say in it anyway and it won't work out how I want. I think it's dumb we stopped playing LSU at Thanksgiving weekend to placate the Aggies, who eventually will want to flip that back to UT again and leave LSU hanging.
I remember the SWC all too well.
The Texass Longwhorns are a blight upon the land and--like cholera and smallpox--bring pestilence and misery and lay waste to wherever they spread. Woe unto the SEC for welcoming these vipers into her bed.
As for OU, although they never tainted the SWC, what else can you expect from a team who proudly claims a group of dirty-dealing, cheating, land thieves as their mascot.
I think football will be the sport that suffers as recruiting gets that much harder.
We're not winning
We're not the only way to for guys to play in the SEC - an advantage we had before aTm entered the league - now we are surrounded on all borders by SEC states.
Seems like we have lost recruiting presence in Texas, Oklahoma, and Louisiana the last few years as it is.
Quote from: DrMongoose on Nov 19, 2023, 08:57 PMI think football will be the sport that suffers as recruiting gets that much harder.
We're not winning
We're not the only way to for guys to play in the SEC - an advantage we had before aTm entered the league - now we are surrounded on all borders by SEC states.
Seems like we have lost recruiting presence in Texas, Oklahoma, and Louisiana the last few years as it is.
I get that but it's not like Texas and OU weren't already out recruiting us. Certainly A&M coming into the conference did hurt us but hiring morons hurt us worser. Houston and SMU both going to "P5" conferences could also hurt us.
I think since Pittman has been here we've placed an emphasis on recruiting Georgia and some of the other "legacy SEC states" and also Houston more so than under our previous few coaches. If I'm not mistaken our Louisiana recruiting has consisted of taking LSU players.
Quote from: Jean Lafitte on Nov 16, 2023, 09:17 PMBack during the SWC days, Arkansas and Mississippi played an out-of-conference football game every year? Like a permanent opponent? I had no idea.
The series ended in 1960 when (imagine that) a ref hosed the hogs; AKA "The Tommy Bell Game"
Oct. 22, 1960: No. 2 Ole Miss def. No. 14 Arkansas, 10-7
The Arkansas-Mississippi game, played regularly from 1913-1960, was often more contentious than the annual Arkansas-Texas game.
Both fan bases were rowdy and passionate; so much so that the in 1960, a riot reportedly erupted after the Rebels escaped with a 10-7 victory.
With the game tied in the waning seconds, Ole Miss booted a 39-yard field goal to go up by three. There was just one problem: referee Tommy Bell had called time out due to excessive crowd noise. The field goal was waved off and the Rebels were given a another chance. But the second kick hooked left — allegedly — sailing wide of the goal posts.
Still, Bell signaled that the kick was good. Fights broke out in the stands immediately. After the game, Hogs coach Frank Broyles chided officials and threatened never to play the Rebels again. When the series' contract expired the following year, Broyles made good on his promise. Although the two schools met in the Sugar Bowl in 1963 and 1970, Arkansas didn't renew its series with Ole Miss until 1981.
Arkansas and Ole Miss also played some games in the '80s. In Little Rock and Jackson.
I think we we had more games vs them than any major conference nonconference opponent.
They were a natural fit for a rival when we joined the SEC.
Quote from: Show-Me Hog on Nov 20, 2023, 11:32 AMArkansas and Ole Miss also played some games in the '80s. In Little Rock and Jackson.
80-89 too, I think. Like I said, they were a bigger rival than most of the SWC.
Quote from: BleedinRed on Nov 15, 2023, 08:06 AMConference expansions are the end of college sports as we know it. The conferences are too big and are only going to become more top heavy. The SEC will only get two playoff spots each year and those spots will be taken up by Bama, Oklahoma, Texas and Georgia. The complaint over the last 40 years is that the same teams win every year. That is only going to get amplified. Add to it NIL and 99% of the programs are going to be sitting in the back of the bus.
The good news is Texas seems to wreck every conference they are in so I give the new SEC 20 years before it falls apart.
We can compete in the SEC. Texas is having a good year this year but if you look at their boards they have similar gripes, and they don't have a basketball program like ours.
The SEC is best positioned to succeed because football culture is pervasive and all the states are contiguous. It's all southern and more homogenous than the others. Only two time zones.
The Big10 will be a diluted shitstain. It's a real issue for four time zones and very different cultures. The west coast teams won't mesh well, No one out there gives a shit outside a few alums vs SEC teams that enjoy fan bases of mostly non alums. USC /UCLA will never have big fan support outside alums. Rutgers/oregon...can't fucking wait. Real fun for soccer and volleyball players.
Big12 is just going to be number 3 and high dilution of a weak contract.
We will not compete in the sec in football until we get the right coach. Do that and we can occassionally get in that 12 team playoff.
We had that guy and they ran him off because he was getting some side action. The chances of us catching lightning in a bottle a 2nd time is almost beyond calculating. We will continue getting our shit pushed in, only now there will be a couple new faces doing some pushing.
Sure is great being a hog fan. :suicide:
I don't have enough curse words in my vocabulary to participate in this conversation.
I give zero shits about Oklahoma or Texas. Can't spell cocksucker without OU. That's all I have to say
Frank Broyles saved our ass by getting us in the cool kids' club when we did.
There's about to be a separation between haves and have nots and we likely get to ride along while the likes of Ok State, Texas Tech, Wash St, and Kansas may not.
Quote from: AporkalypseNow on Nov 27, 2023, 10:34 AMThere's about to be a separation between haves and have nots and we likely get to ride along while the likes of Ok State, Texas Tech, Wash St, and Kansas may not.
And yet some of the fans have wanted to move to the Big 12 or lesser conferences since 1992.
Quote from: RPL on Nov 28, 2023, 09:11 AMAnd yet some of the fans have wanted to move to the Big 12 or lesser conferences since 1992.
I'm about 75% convinced I would be happier as a fan going 10-2, 7-1 in the Sun Belt rather than 4-8, 1-7 in the SEC.
Quote from: Show-Me Hog on Nov 28, 2023, 11:17 AMI'm about 75% convinced I would be happier as a fan going 10-2, 7-1 in the Sun Belt rather than 4-8, 1-7 in the SEC.
In football, probably.
Come March, watching the 26-4 Hogs end up in the NIT because they lost in the Sun Belt Tournament championship game would be awfully frustrating.
Quote from: Show-Me Hog on Nov 28, 2023, 11:17 AMI'm about 75% convinced I would be happier as a fan going 10-2, 7-1 in the Sun Belt rather than 4-8, 1-7 in the SEC.
When we were actually winning big games in the SEC under Petrino how good did that feel, though?
Sugar Bowl vs Ohio St, win or lose, that was the shit.
Quote from: AporkalypseNow on Nov 28, 2023, 01:07 PMWhen we were actually winning big games in the SEC under Petrino how good did that feel, though?
Sugar Bowl vs Ohio St, win or lose, that was the shit.
I enjoyed the Petrino years as much as anybody, but what BIG games did we win? You mentioned the Sugar Bowl, we lost. Never beat Alabama. Beat Georgia when they were down. Lost to LSU. I'm guessing there was a BIG win, but I don't remember it.
Quote from: Usafhawg on Nov 28, 2023, 01:45 PMI enjoyed the Petrino years as much as anybody, but what BIG games did we win? You mentioned the Sugar Bowl, we lost. Never beat Alabama. Beat Georgia when they were down. Lost to LSU. I'm guessing there was a BIG win, but I don't remember it.
Beat Georgia at Georgia, beat #6 LSU, beat #10 South Carolina, beat Kansas State in the highest ranked non-BCS bowl that year. Only lost two home games in his final three years (five total in his tenure).
Also, fucked out of 2009 Florida, 2009 LSU, and 2010 Auburn. In 2010 and 2011, every loss was to a team that was either #1 when we played them or was #1 at some point in the season. The wins would have been nice but those 3 games we got royally screwed out of were egregious.
Quote from: AporkalypseNow on Nov 28, 2023, 01:07 PMWhen we were actually winning big games in the SEC under Petrino how good did that feel, though?
Sugar Bowl vs Ohio St, win or lose, that was the shit.
That's like my wife asking me remember that time we had mind-blowing sex? More than 10 years ago? Wasn't that awesome?
Well yeah, but if it's a one-time event over decades, maybe I would rather date an ugly girl who puts out regularly.
Quote from: bigpig on Nov 28, 2023, 02:02 PMBeat Georgia at Georgia, beat #6 LSU, beat #10 South Carolina, beat Kansas State in the highest ranked non-BCS bowl that year. Only lost two home games in his final three years (five total in his tenure).
Georgia finished 6-7 (3-5 SEC). They lost to UCF in the Liberty Bowl.
I'll give you the "Didn't come to Paint" game
South Carolina is a maybe. They didn't play LSU or Bama that year, so they were "Missouri good".
I thought we didn't care about the Cotton Bowl or was that only when Nutt was coaching?
Quote from: Usafhawg on Nov 28, 2023, 02:17 PMGeorgia finished 6-7 (3-5 SEC). They lost to UCF in the Liberty Bowl.
I'll give you the "Didn't come to Paint" game
South Carolina is a maybe. They didn't play LSU or Bama that year, so they were "Missouri good".
I thought we didn't care about the Cotton Bowl or was that only when Nutt was coaching?
Georgia underwhelmed, yes, but that's a game we lose 99/100. In fact, I'm pretty sure it was our only win in Athens. It wasn't "big" in the traditional sense, but it was a humongous win for us as a program, and it was a win that made everyone stop and realize we had arrived.
You don't win the way we did in 2010-2011 without being legitimately great. We were number 3 in the country, lost a heartbreaker to number 1, and got cheesed by number 2 (might've been #1 at the time) on the road five days after a player died. We won several ranked games, including top-ten showdowns, road games, and neutral site games. We were winning consistently, something we haven't done at all since then.
Why you feel the need to downplay it is beyond me.
Quote from: bigpig on Nov 28, 2023, 02:20 PMGeorgia underwhelmed, yes, but that's a game we lose 99/100. In fact, I'm pretty sure it was our only win in Athens. It wasn't "big" in the traditional sense, but it was a humongous win for us as a program, and it was a win that made everyone stop and realize we had arrived.
You don't win the way we did in 2010-2011 without being legitimately great. We were number 3 in the country, lost a heartbreaker to number 1, and got cheesed by number 2 (might've been #1 at the time) on the road five days after a player died. We won several ranked games, including top-ten showdowns, road games, and neutral site games. We were winning consistently, something we haven't done at all since then.
Why you feel the need to downplay it is beyond me.
I'm not "downplaying". It just seems to me that we lost the BIG games. Yes, we were ranked #3, but we LOST to #1 and #2. Winning those would be BIG games. We LOST in our only BCS game.
I would MUCH rather go back to those days, but we still lost more BIG games than we won back then. Again, not trying to downplay, just being honest.
What an odd take, that I'm sure absolutely no one ever would agree with.
Bobby NEVER lost to the goddam Aggys.
Bring him home
10-2 with those two being loses to #1 and #2 sure beat the hell out of losing to San Jose States and North Texas of the world. Or going winless in conference play two years straight.
Quote from: mde114 on Nov 28, 2023, 02:45 PMBobby NEVER lost to the goddam Aggys.
Bring him home
Is it possible that Coach Bobby Petrino would be the next OC for Razorback Football?
TOUCHDOWN! ARKANSAS! OH MY !
Quote from: Usafhawg on Nov 28, 2023, 02:27 PMI'm not "downplaying". It just seems to me that we lost the BIG games. Yes, we were ranked #3, but we LOST to #1 and #2. Winning those would be BIG games. We LOST in our only BCS game.
I would MUCH rather go back to those days, but we still lost more BIG games than we won back then. Again, not trying to downplay, just being honest.
You know what games we didn't lose under BMFP? The ones like Liberty and BYU. Or to a 5-7 or 5-6 Missouri at home. Or to a 5-7 aTm after being up 14-0.
The only games he lost to less talented teams or lower reputation teams were Kentucky and Miss State his first year, before he'd had time to install his system fully and flush the stench of Nutt from the program. Without beating those teams you don't get the opportunity at any truly big games. And it's fair to say he won his share of the big games...2-2 vs. LSU, 3-1 vs. Auburn, 3-1 against the best teams South Carolina ever had, etc.
I'd LOVE to whine about how we can't beat Bama again when we have 10 or 11 wins.
I guess some people do have unreasonable expectations for the program.
Quote from: AporkalypseNow on Nov 29, 2023, 12:59 PMI'd LOVE to whine about how we can't beat Bama again when we have 10 or 11 wins.
I guess some people do have unreasonable expectations for the program.
I say AGAIN.
I LOVED THE PETRINO YEARSI guess my definition of "big" games and everybody else's is different. Beating USC-E doesn't merit a big game to me. Beating a 6-7 Georgia team doesn't merit a big game to me. I did say I will give the "didn't come to paint" game. A big game win to me would've been beating Bama. Beating LSU when we were both Top 3. Beating OSU in our only BCS game.
Just because we didn't lose to the Liberty's and BYU's, doesn't make those big games.
Either way, I'm happier than Rick B's guests on Thanksgiving when they tear into his wonderful crockpot dressing now that BMFP is back!!
Quote from: Usafhawg on Nov 29, 2023, 02:11 PMI say AGAIN.
I LOVED THE PETRINO YEARS
I guess my definition of "big" games and everybody else's is different. Beating USC-E doesn't merit a big game to me. Beating a 6-7 Georgia team doesn't merit a big game to me. I did say I will give the "didn't come to paint" game. A big game win to me would've been beating Bama. Beating LSU when we were both Top 3. Beating OSU in our only BCS game.
Beating LSU when they were #5 isn't a big game?
Beating South Carolina and Kansas St when they were in the top ten don't count as big games?
This is such a weird hill to die on. It sounds like you're saying "those big games don't count, only the ones we lost count" which is a weird, cynical way to look at things, especially in the context of what we were before and after Petrino's tenure as HC.
I know a lot of people like to rewrite history and down play what we had and where we were going, but under BP every year was better and the big wins were coming.
Under Petrino, the only dragon we didn't slay was Saban and Bama. We got our shots on everyone else.
Quote from: piglosopher on Nov 29, 2023, 03:14 PMUnder Petrino, the only dragon we didn't slay was Saban and Bama. We got our shots on everyone else.
Exactly. The media and simple fans narrative after he was wrongly terminated was that "Bobby couldn't beat Alabama or LSU." He went 2-2 vs LSU, with one of the losses enabled by an egregious officiating "mistake" that bailed Les Miles out of losing two weeks in a row due to his inability to manage the clock at the end of a game.
I don't think any of us were or should have been under the impression that BMFP was about to turn us into Saban's Alabama. But there is no reason to believe that we would have been anything less than a 9-10 win team on average, with 7-8 as the absolute floor and the upside to win the whole damn thing if the breaks fell our way.
The only game I can think of that Petrino didn't win that he should have is 2010 vs Bama. Other than that, he took care of business and won high profile games.
The 2011 season where we "didn't take care of business" was when LSU and Alabama had historically good teams. Each finished with 1 loss, and the loss was to each other. It's unfortunate and the Arkansas way that our best team in decades just happened to be that year
2011 also had the LSU game coming the same week that the team had to process the death of 88.
Also, can we not talk about 2010 Bama?
I came to this thread thinking it was about Texas and Oklahoma in the sec and instead it's another fucking peteino thewad. Geesh
In terms of best team in decades I think you could make a case for Berts 9 win team that flopped against Va Tech (better coaching would have probably got us up to 10 maybe 11 wins).
Sam's 9 win season makes you wonder a bit too. looking back knowing what we know now this coach is in way over his head and likely fell apart when Odom bailed.