https://x.com/aaron_torres/status/1785111759730376822?
Not sure what is going on, but it sounds ominous.
If they ever get to revenue sharing with college athletes, that should at a minimum do away with the portal madness.
You don't share revenue with someone who can up and leave every year.
This will probably go ahead and kill it off.
If that is the direction everything is headed will the fans still be blamed for the success of the team by the tens of dollars they give to NIL?
All of this started when the IOC let professionals compete in the Olympics. Madness.
Quote from: Lurk on Apr 29, 2024, 08:53 PMThis will probably go ahead and kill it off.
I really fear this will be the case.
https://x.com/rossdellenger/status/1786192250277683583
Quote from: Lurk on Apr 29, 2024, 08:53 PMThis will probably go ahead and kill it off.
There will be snowflakes that have never seen sports that will burn this shit down in short order.
.Anyway back on track...a planned revenue share model funneled thru tv networks, merchandise, and ticket sales to have to fork over many more billions of dollars for the rights and thus subscribers & ticket holders (that's us) will be contributing to NIL in one form or another. The TV packages and ticket costs will go up substancially because the greedy fucking schools won't let go of previous revenue streams.
The entire idea of NIL was for this thing to be apart from the schools all together and we've quickly gravitated toward this collective model. This sounds like the collective industry may get kicked the to curb and the schools will sort it out? It goes completely 180 from where this all started. It places the pressure on being in a conference with strong revenue shares (SEC)...it completely destabliizes any independent model like we've seen from Notre Dame and BYU over the years. Gee that sounds really good the networks.
This may slow the portal down to sustainable levels but I don't think they'll get rid of it entirely as it makes for good stories in the dead parts of the year. For coaches team building never ends, plus they have the added pressure to raise money like never before and the fans have more power than ever before currently. That dog won't hunt.
Coaches could plan 2 and 3 years out back in the day with kids...they can't plan 2 or 3 months ahead now. It's completely bonkers. This may help smooth the NIL thing a bit by funneling money thru the revenue streams where it should be but it's like selling something with a "FREE XYZ"....trust me it's built in the price feller.
Why don't we see guys in professional sports "portal"? Oh, that's right; contracts.
College needs to adopt the professional model and be done.
Quote from: BleedinRed on May 03, 2024, 07:28 AMWhy don't we see guys in professional sports "portal"? Oh, that's right; contracts.
College needs to adopt the professional model and be done.
At that point, making athletes go to class seems kind of pointless. If they're that well paid, they should be focusing on their sport.
I don't think that's a good thing, but sure seems unavoidable.
Quote from: Sus-Scrofa on May 03, 2024, 07:37 AMAt that point, making athletes go to class seems kind of pointless. If they're that well paid, they should be focusing on their sport.
I don't think that's a good thing, but sure seems unavoidable.
Might as well make the three major men's sports into premier leagues and leave women's sports in colleges.
Quote from: Sus-Scrofa on May 03, 2024, 07:37 AMAt that point, making athletes go to class seems kind of pointless. If they're that well paid, they should be focusing on their sport.
I don't think that's a good thing, but sure seems unavoidable.
Quote from: HogOfWar on May 03, 2024, 08:07 AMMight as well make the three major men's sports into premier leagues and leave women's sports in colleges.
Yes, at the point they are no longer student athletes, why do they get to wear University of Arkansas or Duke or Notre Dame on their uniforms? And use university facilities?
I don't pay more than one ticket a year now, will never pay more, if that gets to be too much I will care about something else.
That was easy.
Quote from: animal on May 03, 2024, 07:21 AMThe TV packages and ticket costs will go up substantially because the greedy fucking schools won't let go of previous revenue streams.
Honest question...are the schools making a lot of money off of sports right now, or are they bringing in a lot of money and spending it on coaches salaries, facilities, etc. If they are making a lot of profit, I agree with you. If they are bringing in a lot of money and spending it, how do you suggest they change in order pay the players and not increase ticket prices, etc.? I hate that tickets cost as much as they do now, but I'm afraid it's too late to put the toothpaste back in the tube on that one.
"Division I athletics generated $15.8 billion in revenues in 2019, according to the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA), which regulates student athletics among 1,100 colleges and universities."
Someone is making a lot of money. But, if Arkansas fans would give a little more then the Razorbacks can win ships!
Quote from: BleedinRed on May 03, 2024, 09:07 AM"Division I athletics generated $15.8 billion in revenues in 2019, according to the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA), which regulates student athletics among 1,100 colleges and universities."
Someone is making a lot of money. But, if Arkansas fans would give a little more then the Razorbacks can win ships!
That goes along with my question. Who is making all the money? Where is it going if not to salaries, facilities, etc.? The NCAA isn't a publicly traded company so they aren't paying shareholders.
Quote from: uagrad2007 on May 03, 2024, 09:02 AMHonest question...are the schools making a lot of money off of sports right now, or are they bringing in a lot of money and spending it on coaches salaries, facilities, etc. If they are making a lot of profit, I agree with you. If they are bringing in a lot of money and spending it, how do you suggest they change in order pay the players and not increase ticket prices, etc.? I hate that tickets cost as much as they do now, but I'm afraid it's too late to put the toothpaste back in the tube on that one.
A few of the very successful schools do make money off sports, albeit indirectly. There have been many stories written about the increased number of applications that schools like Alabama have received over the years due to their success in football. Results in increased enrollment and eventually increased donations and funding for the schools. And not just Alabama. But almost exclusively the very successful schools. Not schools like Missouri, or Arkansas.
Quote from: jdcatty on May 03, 2024, 09:11 AMA few of the very successful schools do make money off sports, albeit indirectly. There have been many stories written about the increased number of applications that schools like Alabama have received over the years due to their success in football. Results in increased enrollment and eventually increased donations and funding for the schools. And not just Alabama. But almost exclusively the very successful schools. Not schools like Missouri, or Arkansas.
I've heard stories about that...like the application rate at Alabama went up by 50% after Saban won his first NC (or something along those lines).
Where is all of this money going? Are people getting rich off of it...other than coaches? Are there people behind the scenes who are making millions from the universities? Or, are the schools just spending it all on new buildings, more employees, etc.?
No one can know that Napoleon.
isn't enrollment growing so fast that it's beginning to stress the infrastructure? like record numbers? if so, it's damn sure not because of athletic success, especially with the most popular sport. and arkansas is consistently in the top 20 in athletic revenue.
as for what comes in and what goes out, it's not that hard to find.
https://arkansasrazorbacks.com/financial-information/
No one "makes" money off of college athletics because it was set up on a non-profit model. Every last dime was spent every last year. That's the reason for the facilities arms race the last twenty years. Had to spend all that money on something and facilities were a good way to recruit since you couldn't pay players.
Anyway, we are where anyone with a brain knew we would be once any sort of payments were authorized. NIL which originated with the communist California legislature was designed to blow up college sports which they felt were exploitive to you black athletes.
Any sorts of rules for regulating competition as far as it relates to payments will be very difficult because any sort of cooperation to limit salaries or other employment options will be seen violating anti-trust laws. Congress will have to act and create an anti-trust exemption for the NCAA or there will have to be a player's association and a collective bargaining agreement like the NFL has. I don't expect Congress to do anything that can be seen as limiting the earning potential of minority athletes and the he other may or may not happen.
Anyway, what you are seeing now is precisely why the NCAA had the rules it had and why they fought any sort of payment for so long. As soon as the door was opened in the slightest, it was kicked in. We've been here before in the 1920s before all the regulation. College football was immensely popular and teams like Oklahoma were hiring 30 year old oil field workers to win games.
Quote from: The Whyte Boar on May 03, 2024, 09:43 AMAny sorts of rules for regulating competition as far as it relates to payments will be very difficult because any sort of cooperation to limit salaries or other employment options will be seen violating anti-trust laws. Congress will have to act and create an anti-trust exemption for the NCAA or there will have to be a player's association and a collective bargaining agreement like the NFL has. I don't expect Congress to do anything that can be seen as limiting the earning potential of minority athletes and the he other may or may not happen.
This is discussed in the article from Ross Dellenger that I linked yesterday. The players would have to collectively agree to a salary cap projected at $17-22MM per year if they accept the revenue distribution that's being proposed. I assume that there will be serious limitations to the transfer portal at that point too which would fix a lot of this shit.
I don't see how this fixes NIL though because you can't cap that.
If the purpose of college is to prepare a student for their profession, then just make football, basketball, baseball, etc a field of study. Do away with any "unnecessary classes".
Their classes are their workouts and practices.
If a kid wants a well rounded education, then they can have a double major in one of the traditional fields.
Quote from: Hizog on May 03, 2024, 10:13 AMIf the purpose of college is to prepare a student for their profession, then just make football, basketball, baseball, etc a field of study. Do away with any "unnecessary classes".
Their classes are their workouts and practices.
If a kid wants a well rounded education, then they can have a double major in one of the traditional fields.
Interesting. Kind of like a Music major.
Quote from: Hizog on May 03, 2024, 10:13 AMIf the purpose of college is to prepare a student for their profession, then just make football, basketball, baseball, etc a field of study. Do away with any "unnecessary classes".
Their classes are their workouts and practices.
If a kid wants a well rounded education, then they can have a double major in one of the traditional fields.
The west German and Russian folk were doing it for a while. Failing probably meant getting flogged but it was a great incentive to not fail.
Quote from: uagrad2007 on May 03, 2024, 09:26 AMI've heard stories about that...like the application rate at Alabama went up by 50% after Saban won his first NC (or something along those lines).
Where is all of this money going? Are people getting rich off of it...other than coaches? Are there people behind the scenes who are making millions from the universities? Or, are the schools just spending it all on new buildings, more employees, etc.?
I'm sure a lot of it goes into the general foundation fund. There's lots of useless shit to fund now.
Quote from: Hizog on May 03, 2024, 10:13 AMIf the purpose of college is to prepare a student for their profession, then just make football, basketball, baseball, etc a field of study. Do away with any "unnecessary classes".
Their classes are their workouts and practices.
If a kid wants a well rounded education, then they can have a double major in one of the traditional fields.
I heard a radio guy talk about this. A football major or athletics major.
A mix of business classes, some accounting, health, nutrition, credits for training and practice.
Better than nothing.
So then...
1. Make athletics a field of study
2. Schools pay the athletes, but there is a reasonable salary cap on schools the same as most professional leagues. Possibly a larger cap at the bigger conferences.
3. Athletes can earn as much NIL as they want (per the courts), however, NIL is independent from the schools, meaning schools can't use it to recruit players. It will still be abused, but no different than the last 50 years of NCAA recruiting.
4. I'm too tired to fix the transfer portal. Someone else do that.
Agreed with making athletics the major....I have been screaming for this since I was at the University....they don't have to go to class whatsoever...they are here to try and become pros.
I would think there would be a lot more professional basket weavers out there but apparently that's a dead end major. Just give it a few more years we'll need them after WWIII starts up with red balloons over towns near you.
if this happens, I would trust it will applied to softball (title ix if biden hasn't gutted it).
Those 2 sports become full ride sports which gets a hell of a lot more expensive plus NIL and all that.
I could see some athletic departments cutting sports and some closing the doors.
https://x.com/BaseballAmerica/status/1786517842617049175
NCAA is trying to accelerate its own demise.
I am facing a real internal dichotomy.
On one hand I am happier than I have ever been and honestly am an absolute delight to be around if the feedback I have been getting is any indication. Knowing that has me in state of undetectable smugness that doesn't show so it is like a feedback loop. I keep getting more charming and likable and I am starting to fascinate myself.*
On the other hand I find myself enjoying more and more watching asshats who have decided they are important enough to be "in charge" of something just absolutely fuck it up, doesn't matter what it is as long as I am not invested in it. My private life has been full of all sorts of leaders who I have held in high regard while the void in leadership in the public sphere is burning down the country.
*I am so full of shit, aren't I? hahahaha O:-) / >:D
Yesterday I saw a poll on X (I think) asking how many people think it would be ok to allocate tax dollars to the NIL mix. I hate the whole thing anyway, but that is definitely a "bridge too far" in my book.
Quote from: jdcatty on May 08, 2024, 01:44 PMYesterday I saw a poll on X (I think) asking how many people think it would be ok to allocate tax dollars to the NIL mix. I hate the whole thing anyway, but that is definitely a "bridge too far" in my book.
For Arkansas? State tax dollars or federal?
I have a feeling the answers would be very different in SEC Country than, say, Idaho or Connecticut or Maine.
But I wouldn't see it carrying a majority anywhere. Very analogous to these stadium propositions that keep failing.
Quote from: BleedinRed on May 03, 2024, 07:28 AMWhy don't we see guys in professional sports "portal"? Oh, that's right; contracts.
College needs to adopt the professional model and be done.
This is where it's headed.
My main question is, what happens when Alabama trades a 5-star freshman QB who's sitting behind two 5-stars to Arkansas for a senior OT and a player to be named later? I don't think that players understand quite what they're signing up for once they become employees.
Quote from: Show-Me Hog on May 08, 2024, 01:51 PMFor Arkansas? State tax dollars or federal?
I have a feeling the answers would be very different in SEC Country than, say, Idaho or Connecticut or Maine.
But I wouldn't see it carrying a majority anywhere. Very analogous to these stadium propositions that keep failing.
The poll didn't specify a state.
Quote from: jdcatty on May 08, 2024, 01:44 PMYesterday I saw a poll on X (I think) asking how many people think it would be ok to allocate tax dollars to the NIL mix. I hate the whole thing anyway, but that is definitely a "bridge too far" in my book.
Hard no.
Quote from: jdcatty on May 08, 2024, 01:44 PMYesterday I saw a poll on X (I think) asking how many people think it would be ok to allocate tax dollars to the NIL mix. I hate the whole thing anyway, but that is definitely a "bridge too far" in my book.
Hell no.
Quote from: jdcatty on May 08, 2024, 01:44 PMYesterday I saw a poll on X (I think) asking how many people think it would be ok to allocate tax dollars to the NIL mix. I hate the whole thing anyway, but that is definitely a "bridge too far" in my book.
Shut it all down if it comes to that.
I know I'm in the minority when I say that college kids don't deserve a dime in compensation. No NIL. Nothing.
Free education, books, housing, meals, tutoring, just on and on. Plus training as they audition for the pro's.
I don't care how much schools make off your ass. If you don't like what's offered then go flip burgers big man.
Quote from: obijuana on May 09, 2024, 02:50 PMI know I'm in the minority when I say that college kids don't deserve a dime in compensation. No NIL. Nothing.
Free education, books, housing, meals, tutoring, just on and on. Plus training as they audition for the pro's.
I don't care how much schools make off your ass. If you don't like what's offered then go flip burgers big man.
It is my understanding, if they are on scholarship, then they can't go flip burgers. They aren't allowed to have jobs like that.
Quote from: Usafhawg on May 09, 2024, 03:00 PMIt is my understanding, if they are on scholarship, then they can't go flip burgers. They aren't allowed to have jobs like that.
this seems to get ignored by some in the nil discussion, and was one of the big reasons nil came to be.
Quote from: obijuana on May 09, 2024, 02:50 PMI know I'm in the minority when I say that college kids don't deserve a dime in compensation. No NIL. Nothing.
Free education, books, housing, meals, tutoring, just on and on. Plus training as they audition for the pro's.
I don't care how much schools make off your ass. If you don't like what's offered then go flip burgers big man.
Agree with this in some principle but also don't
Don't think it's right players have a token autograph signing bullshit to get paid six figures just because it was your best offer to come here.
But on the flip side, if my face was on a video game cover, I'd feel I deserve more than free tuition, room and board.
When D-Dog, Felix, Matt, Ryan, etc., were killing it here, we'd sell their jersey numbers without their names on it, but charge a premium. Surely they deserve a taste of that cash. If it hadn't been stupid all along, we wouldn't have gone from one end of the stupid spectrum to the other in less than two years.
Quote from: Cornhogio on May 09, 2024, 03:55 PMWhen D-Dog, Felix, Matt, Ryan, etc., were killing it here, we'd sell their jersey numbers without their names on it, but charge a premium. Surely they deserve a taste of that cash. If it hadn't been stupid all along, we wouldn't have gone from one end of the stupid spectrum to the other in less than two years.
Yep.
I loathe what NIL turned into, but NCAA fucked itself by how rigid the were and how zealously they were policing penny-ante bullshit.
When they're disallowing players from getting side jobs and persecuting coaches for buying a fucking hamburger for a recruit who hadn't eaten, that's the type of bullshit that invites litigation to counter balance it because it's bad faith enforcement. If the NCAA wouldve been more lenient in the the old system, I'm not sure we would be where we are today.
The NCAA basically was a speed trap cop who was throwing drivers in prison for going 1 mph over the limit while people are getting murdered a few blocks over.
Quote from: Feral on May 09, 2024, 04:27 PMThe NCAA basically was a speed trap cop who was throwing drivers in prison for going 1 mph over the limit while people are getting murdered a few blocks over.
Just like that. I think most of those cops got a piece of those tickets too.
Again, while everyone blames the ncaa - remember the schools are the ncaa - they propose and vote on the rules. If the ncaa is so bad, why haven't schools withdrawn from the ncaa?
it's broken but they (the schools) are making no attempt to fix it. They don't want to share the TV $$$, why I don't know.
So Pittman on Finebaum last weekend mentioned he is going to try to raise money around the state this summer.
It's sad and a tough sell for him as a dude making $7 million a year in Arkansas trying to get people to give him money so he can pay players to come here on top of getting a scholarship. It just makes no sense - athletic department employees - if not then close to the highest paid state employees - can't contribute to NIL but yet they have the income to do it.
I still blame the SEC and Big Ten for all this, their greed in trying to squeeze every $$$ vs. no expense to them (really what a conference pay for other than officials? they get great rates to hold tournaments, hotels, etc which are often at the schools) and they dont' have to deal with rule enforcement.
if baseball does go to full scholarships then softball will likely too. I can see some non power 5 schools dropping the sports.
I still don't know why we should be paying athletes not in a pro league to play a game. We as a society have lost our minds on sports and now you don't have to make it to the pros to make a million by playing a sport. it's nuts.
is there another industry that despite generating millions of dollars then asks for you to pay it's labor cost?
Can wait for that first court case at the high school level.
Quote from: DrMongoose on May 10, 2024, 07:38 AMathletes not in a pro league
This seems to be no longer true.
Those blaming the NCAA are wrong. The NCAA was so ridiculous on the rules for so long because they realized that once money got into it, it was Katy bar the door and there was no stopping it. If you pay someone a thousand a week, someone is going to think they are worth $2000 and sue. And the court decisions so far are that any restraint on amount is an unlawful restraint on trade and a violation of anti-trust statutes.
Quote from: The Whyte Boar on May 10, 2024, 09:39 AMThose blaming the NCAA are wrong. The NCAA was so ridiculous on the rules for so long because they realized that once money got into it, it was Katy bar the door and there was no stopping it. If you pay someone a thousand a week, someone is going to think they are worth $2000 and sue. And the court decisions so far are that any restraint on amount is an unlawful restraint on trade and a violation of anti-trust statutes.
At the end of the day, money ruined it (as it does most things).
It became too big of a business, TV deals became too lucrative, and thus eventually there was going to be litigation.
NIL itself isn't an overly terrible concept (it's essentially capitalism in its simplest form), but paired with the an unrestricted transfer portal it's effectively the end of college athletics as we know it.
If players were still restricted and had to sit out for a season when transferring like they used to, the NIL deals and tampering wouldn't be as rampant as they are. Granted, there probably would've eventually been a lawsuit brought on to combat that restriction, but that's an easier case to make than saying players can't make a dime off their name and likeness even though schools are making tens of millions.
And I highly doubt collective bargaining will ever be a thing at the college level. There are way too many athletes to ever have any semblance of collective organization or unionization. It's why the NFLPA is one of the weaker players unions, because it's bigger in size than MLB or NBA and thus more ripe for fragmentation.
Watching a bunch of 18-22 year old idiots get rich from playing a sport annoys me but hey that's the free market, baby. It's funny seeing some people here who bitch about Marxism every other day on the p&r board turn into little communists over this shit.
Quote from: Trigger7672 on May 10, 2024, 10:46 AMWatching a bunch of 18-22 year old idiots get rich from playing a sport annoys me but hey that's the free market, baby. It's funny seeing some people here who bitch about Marxism every other day on the p&r board turn into little communists over this shit.
Meh...sports leagues have to be socialistic to a degree or they don't work. How much fun would it be if Jerry Jones could have bought Tom Brady in the middle of the season and had him suiting up for the Cowboys midway through? With unlimited transfers, that's almost where we are now. Sure, it's capitalism, but nobody is going to be watching it before too long if something doesn't change.
It's not about denying the kids opportunities to make money, it's about preserving competition so that people will watch.
Quote from: The Whyte Boar on May 10, 2024, 11:02 AMMeh...sports leagues have to be socialistic to a degree or they don't work. How much fun would it be if Jerry Jones could have bought Tom Brady in the middle of the season and had him suiting up for the Cowboys midway through? With unlimited transfers, that's almost where we are now. Sure, it's capitalism, but nobody is going to be watching it before too long if something doesn't change.
It's not about denying the kids opportunities to make money, it's about preserving competition so that people will watch.
This is correct. The real competition is the NFL vs. NCAA vs. NHL vs. movies vs. whatever, for the entertainment dollar.
Capitalism WITHIN a league doesn't work and was curtailed long ago. Which is also why leagues get antitrust exemptions.
Quote from: The Whyte Boar on May 10, 2024, 11:02 AMMeh...sports leagues have to be socialistic to a degree or they don't work. How much fun would it be if Jerry Jones could have bought Tom Brady in the middle of the season and had him suiting up for the Cowboys midway through? With unlimited transfers, that's almost where we are now. Sure, it's capitalism, but nobody is going to be watching it before too long if something doesn't change.
It's not about denying the kids opportunities to make money, it's about preserving competition so that people will watch.
The unlimited transfer thing is insane and needs to be fixed. I'm more referring to the people who think the athletes shouldn't be paid.
Quote from: Trigger7672 on May 10, 2024, 11:36 AMThe unlimited transfer thing is insane and needs to be fixed. I'm more referring to the people who think the athletes shouldn't be paid.
Yeah, but it's more than that. I mean would you watch the NFL if a group of investors not officially affiliated with the team could circumvent team salary cap rules and pay a player an unlimited amount of money to go to another team?
Professional players give up a lot for that money. Most of them don't even get to decide what team they are going to play for their initial contract of three to five years. All of these concessions to socialism vs. capitalism are so we avoid exactly shat is happening in college sports right now.
And while a few players build on star power they earn in college, most of these players have to earn outside endorsement deals through their ability in the league. These college kids are getting offered insane money before they ever make a basket or put on a set of pads.
Quote from: The Whyte Boar on May 10, 2024, 11:46 AMYeah, but it's more than that. I mean would you watch the NFL if a group of investors not officially affiliated with the team could circumvent team salary cap rules and pay a player an unlimited amount of money to go to another team?
Professional players give up a lot for that money. Most of them don't even get to decide what team they are going to play for their initial contract of three to five years. All of these concessions to socialism vs. capitalism are so we avoid exactly shat is happening in college sports right now.
And while a few players build on star power they earn in college, most of these players have to earn outside endorsement deals through their ability in the league. These college kids are getting offered insane money before they ever make a basket or put on a set of pads.
It's a clusterfuck without a doubt. People say they're not going to watch anymore but TV ratings are up, ticket prices are up, this doesn't seem to be slowing down the machine of major college sports at all.
"It's not falling apart fast enough, what else can we do to hurry things up!?"
https://x.com/ChrisVannini/status/1788907202238910752
I still predict we will soon be seeing basketball players and a few football players trying to transfer at the end of the fall semester. why shouldn't Alabama be able to pick up a couple of "free agents" over the Christmas break for the playoffs?
I had this shit, but that is where we are.
Quote from: jdcatty on May 10, 2024, 11:58 PMI still predict we will soon be seeing basketball players and a few football players trying to transfer at the end of the fall semester. why shouldn't Alabama be able to pick up a couple of "free agents" over the Christmas break for the playoffs?
I had this shit, but that is where we are.
Why not let lesser teams lend somebody out to them over Christmas break?
or last year Drew Sanders could have gone back through there before entering the draft? You could insure him for injury.
I just think schools offer kids plenty. A helluva lot more than they would get ANYWHERE straight out of high school. I get what some are saying with regards to schools earning money off athlete's NIL. However, if there were no sports these kids would have to use their brains to get into college. A full ride scholarship is an amazing gift. I sure wish my non-athletic, average academic achieving kids had full scholarships.
Capitalism at the core. I have no problem with someone trying to make an honest buck, but all of this NIL/portal stuff started like a gentle offshore breeze not long ago and is now a mile wide EF5 tornado that is threatening to forever deface college sports as we know it.
Perhaps I don't like change. I am starting to get cantankerous.
I knew this is where we were headed when NASCAR introduced restrictor plates and the NFL went to two had touch on the QB. It's all correlated.
Quote from: Trigger7672 on May 10, 2024, 01:24 PMIt's a clusterfuck without a doubt. People say they're not going to watch anymore but TV ratings are up, ticket prices are up, this doesn't seem to be slowing down the machine of major college sports at all.
I think this is mainly because the P5 teams benefit the most. Every year your roster is changing and likely improving which brings optimism up front.
Before the portal, if you sucked last year, you were likely to suck the next unless you had elite recruits coming in. This is when fans would cancel tickets, etc. Now each year brings a but of hope.
Quote from: The Whyte Boar on May 10, 2024, 11:46 AMYeah, but it's more than that. I mean would you watch the NFL if a group of investors not officially affiliated with the team could circumvent team salary cap rules and pay a player an unlimited amount of money to go to another team?
You mean something like a shoe corporation, credit card company, etc. telling a player their endorsement value is higher if they play in New York, Chicago or LA than it would be in Cleveland, Pittsburgh, or Oklahoma City? And structuring their endorsement contract offers accordingly to incentivize players to spurn the latter cities in favor of the former in free agency?
Quote from: DirkPiggler on May 11, 2024, 10:29 AMYou mean something like a shoe corporation, credit card company, etc. telling a player their endorsement value is higher if they play in New York, Chicago or LA than it would be in Cleveland, Pittsburgh, or Oklahoma City? And structuring their endorsement contract offers accordingly to incentivize players to spurn the latter cities in favor of the former in free agency?
Sure that happens, but you have free agency rules, trade deadlines, salary caps and all sorts of other things to even it out.
Quote from: obijuana on May 11, 2024, 12:48 AMI just think schools offer kids plenty. A helluva lot more than they would get ANYWHERE straight out of high school. I get what some are saying with regards to schools earning money off athlete's NIL. However, if there were no sports these kids would have to use their brains to get into college. A full ride scholarship is an amazing gift. I sure wish my non-athletic, average academic achieving kids had full scholarships.
Capitalism at the core. I have no problem with someone trying to make an honest buck, but all of this NIL/portal stuff started like a gentle offshore breeze not long ago and is now a mile wide EF5 tornado that is threatening to forever deface college sports as we know it.
Perhaps I don't like change. I am starting to get cantankerous.
I'm almost certain that I'll come out of this coming sports environment not giving a shit about college sports.
Quote from: Lurk on May 11, 2024, 03:45 PMI'm almost certain that I'll come out of this coming sports environment not giving a shit about college sports.
Same.
Being a Hog fan is hard enough with the bullshit we already have to put up with.
Quote from: Lurk on May 11, 2024, 03:45 PMI'm almost certain that I'll come out of this coming sports environment not giving a shit about college sports.
I don't like it either. But there I'll be...every Saturday morning...watching GameDay and watching football until the last Pac-12 game ends at 2:36 EST.
Where are all the people who've been screaming for years to pay college athletes? Let us hear from you.
"It's not fair that colleges make millions off the backs of these poor kids!" "It's just not fair!"
You got your wish, but you ruined college sports.
Was it worth it?
Quote from: Zoso on May 12, 2024, 08:00 AMI don't like it either. But there I'll be...every Saturday morning...watching GameDay and watching football until the last Pac-12 game ends at 2:36 EST.
Me too, I'm just talking shit.
Quote from: Corn Pop on May 12, 2024, 10:12 AMWhere are all the people who've been screaming for years to pay college athletes? Let us hear from you.
"It's not fair that colleges make millions off the backs of these poor kids!" "It's just not fair!"
You got your wish, but you ruined college sports.
Was it worth it?
How are college sports ruined? Because YOU don't like it doesn't mean they're ruined. Let them get their money.
Quote from: Usafhawg on May 12, 2024, 01:44 PMHow are college sports ruined? Because YOU don't like it doesn't mean they're ruined. Let them get their money.
It's going to be awesome for the kids too. Making teenagers rich with no guidance(in most cases) or guidance by a huckstering entourage should be fine. I'm sure there won't be many like KJ and Rocket who just take their money and quit. Just think, HS kids are next. If some of them would play their cards right, they could retire right out of HS.
Quote from: Lurk on May 12, 2024, 03:12 PMIt's going to be awesome for the kids too. Making teenagers rich with no guidance(in most cases) or guidance by a huckstering entourage should be fine. I'm sure there won't be many like KJ and Rocket who just take their money and quit. Just think, HS kids are next. If some of them would play their cards right, they could retire right out of HS.
Quote from: Lurk on May 12, 2024, 03:12 PMIt's going to be awesome for the kids too. Making teenagers rich with no guidance(in most cases) or guidance by a huckstering entourage should be fine. I'm sure there won't be many like KJ and Rocket who just take their money and quit. Just think, HS kids are next. If some of them would play their cards right, they could retire right out of HS.
Jackson Holliday received an $8.19 million signing bonus out of high school. What is the difference?
Quote from: Usafhawg on May 12, 2024, 03:22 PMJackson Holliday received an $8.19 million signing bonus out of high school. What is the difference?
Holliday is still trying to get to the league while other sact like it is free money with no expectations.
Last year's qb and rb and most of the BKB team come to mind then get butt hurt when they half ass it .
Earn it
College athletes still get things (tuition, clothing, stipends, meals, tutoring, healthcare, etc) that regular students.
Quote from: Usafhawg on May 12, 2024, 03:22 PMJackson Holliday received an $8.19 million signing bonus out of high school. What is the difference?
I don't know or care who that is. There's a lot that will quit after their first 100 thousand, or get killed over it. I'm not talking about the Lebrons of the world, I'm talking about the dumb shits that will be left with nothing after trying to work this to their advantage.
It is a concern to me that many of these athletes are poor, mostly black, kids with very little parental guidance, or whose parents are at best unsophisticated.
The urge to "buy momma house" will be strong for many of them. I hope that the schools are setting up some common sense financial advisory programs for the kids. Of course they won't all listen, but maybe it will help many of them.
Quote from: Lurk on May 12, 2024, 03:54 PMI don't know or care who that is. There's a lot that will quit after their first 100 thousand, or get killed over it. I'm not talking about the Lebrons of the world, I'm talking about the dumb shits that will be left with nothing after trying to work this to their advantage.
You should try watching sports
My position is that college sports haven't been completely ruined yet, but it sure seems like it is headed that way. The next 3 or 4 years will determine the question.
Quote from: Usafhawg on May 12, 2024, 01:44 PMHow are college sports ruined? Because YOU don't like it doesn't mean they're ruined. Let them get their money.
They were already getting their money, in the form of a free college degree, if they applied themselves. The ones good enough to play professionally weren't denied the opportunity to get rich, that opportunity was just delayed a bit. Giving an 18-year-old a million dollars is a curse as often as it's a blessing.
For me, the beauty of college sports was that the kids played for the love of the game, for school pride, for state pride. I enjoyed watching them being molded into men over the course of four years by a coach who instilled in them the values of teamwork, discipline, delayed gratification, brotherhood, etc. Values that will last them a lifetime. That system taught the right lessons. This system teaches the wrong ones.
Now you've got borderline talents like K.J. Jefferson making a million dollars being protected by an O-Line getting free catfish at the Catfish Hole. Or you've got Nick Smith, Jr. flying to L.A. during the season for "knee management" because he's already been paid. It builds resentment.
Then the borderline talent takes his "talent" elsewhere next year because some other school offers more NIL money. The fan is denied the opportunity to watch them grow together, AS A TEAM, over the course of four years.
So what you end up with is the worst of both worlds. You no longer have the beauty of amateur athletics and you still don't have the beauty of true professional sports because the beauty of the NFL, NBA and MLB is that you are watching the best of the best. College sports will never provide that. So we fans are left with a watered-down, bastardized version of the G-League or the XFL.
The beauty of college sports was that its participants were amateurs.
Quote from: Corn Pop on May 12, 2024, 08:13 PMThey were already getting their money, in the form of a free college degree, if they applied themselves. The ones good enough to play professionally weren't denied the opportunity to get rich, that opportunity was just delayed a bit. Giving an 18-year-old a million dollars is a curse as often as it's a blessing.
For me, the beauty of college sports was that the kids played for the love of the game, for school pride, for state pride. I enjoyed watching them being molded into men over the course of four years by a coach who instilled in them the values of teamwork, discipline, delayed gratification, brotherhood, etc. Values that will last them a lifetime. That system taught the right lessons. This system teaches the wrong ones.
Now you've got borderline talents like K.J. Jefferson making a million dollars being protected by an O-Line getting free catfish at the Catfish Hole. Or you've got Nick Smith, Jr. flying to L.A. during the season for "knee management" because he's already been paid. It builds resentment.
Then the borderline talent takes his "talent" elsewhere next year because some other school offers more NIL money. The fan is denied the opportunity to watch them grow together, AS A TEAM, over the course of four years.
So what you end up with is the worst of both worlds. You no longer have the beauty of amateur athletics and you still don't have the beauty of true professional sports because the beauty of the NFL, NBA and MLB is that you are watching the best of the best. College sports will never provide that. So we fans are left with a watered-down, bastardized version of the G-League or the XFL.
The beauty of college sports was that its participants were amateurs.
There is a lot of truth in this. If you don't think this is going to devolve into a "whoever can pay the biggest bucks" situation, I am afraid you are wrong. I just don't see any way out of the morass.
where was the concern for these kids when they were operating in a system that was found to be unconstitutional by one of the most conservative scotus ever? oh yeah, your feels.
not a damn thing wrong thinking the direction of the sport is not to your liking, you have lots of company. to try to interject the financial well being of the players into the argument is kinda weak, imo.
Quote from: Corn Pop on May 12, 2024, 08:13 PMThey were already getting their money, in the form of a free college degree...
they were denied the right to make money, like any other college student. it was the stupid rules that brought this on. why weren't they changed?
funny how the finger seems to get pointed at the 'greedy player', not the system that only stayed the way it did because the ncaa had the money ($68 million thru 2021) to spend fighting it in court for years on end.
Quote from: Corn Pop on May 12, 2024, 08:13 PMSo what you end up with is the worst of both worlds. You no longer have the beauty of amateur athletics and you still don't have the beauty of true professional sports because the beauty of the NFL, NBA and MLB is that you are watching the best of the best. College sports will never provide that. So we fans are left with a watered-down, bastardized version of the G-League or the XFL.
Been saying this for a while.
College sports is basically devolving into shitty, disorganized semi-pro leagues with better branding.
Quote from: vegashog on May 12, 2024, 09:15 PMwhere was the concern for these kids when they were operating in a system that was found to be unconstitutional by one of the most conservative scotus ever? oh yeah, your feels.
not a damn thing wrong thinking the direction of the sport is not to your liking, you have lots of company. to try to interject the financial well being of the players into the argument is kinda weak, imo.
they were denied the right to make money, like any other college student. it was the stupid rules that brought this on. why weren't they changed?
funny how the finger seems to get pointed at the 'greedy player', not the system that only stayed the way it did because the ncaa had the money ($68 million thru 2021) to spend fighting it in court for years on end.
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.
Quote from: vegashog on May 12, 2024, 09:15 PMwhere was the concern for these kids when they were operating in a system that was found to be unconstitutional by one of the most conservative scotus ever? oh yeah, your feels.
not a damn thing wrong thinking the direction of the sport is not to your liking, you have lots of company. to try to interject the financial well being of the players into the argument is kinda weak, imo.
they were denied the right to make money, like any other college student. it was the stupid rules that brought this on. why weren't they changed?
funny how the finger seems to get pointed at the 'greedy player', not the system that only stayed the way it did because the ncaa had the money ($68 million thru 2021) to spend fighting it in court for years on end.
yes they were denied the opportunity to make money like the average college student but again they already had so many benefits the average colleget student didn't get - full scholly (for most SAs, tutoring, appearl, equipment, meals, stipends, top notch health care, counseling, training (facilities, programs, coaches), etc.
if they are going to get additional money it should come from the revenue they generate (TV, tickets, etc) not the fan on top of what they are giving the program.
Quote from: jdcatty on May 12, 2024, 09:12 PMIf you don't think this is going to devolve into a "whoever can pay the biggest bucks" situation, I am afraid you are wrong.
What is wrong with that? I did that the last time I switched companies. Coaches do it all the time. What is the difference?
Quote from: Zoso on May 12, 2024, 08:00 AMI don't like it either. But there I'll be...every Saturday morning...watching GameDay and watching football until the last Pac-12 game ends at 2:36 EST.
Do you really?
I've noticed how much I've checked out. I barely even watch the Gameday predictions, much less the three hour slog it is now. I can't remember the last non-Arkansas game I watched in its entirety outside the playoffs. I usually only watch parts of more than a couple of games if it's bigger weekends toward the end of the season.
No question the direction of the game has turned me off because I used to be almost that level of committed.
Gonna put this one here.
https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/1790002691650830721?t=ydLps5v9V9amYt8ThPOZPg&s=19 (https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/1790002691650830721?t=ydLps5v9V9amYt8ThPOZPg&s=19)
Quote from: Usafhawg on May 13, 2024, 05:42 AMWhat is wrong with that? I did that the last time I switched companies. Coaches do it all the time. What is the difference?
Contracts.
I'm betting you signed a contract that limited your ability to work for other direct competitors, share information you may have learned during your time at your previous job, etc. Maybe, if you're valuable enough, you even had to pay a buyout to your company to leave before the contract expired, or your new employer paid it for you.
That's the big problem here. It's not THAT the players are making money. That's been a long time coming for reasons so many others have pointed out. The issue is that they are able to take that money and leave with no restrictions.
And that's not the players' fault. The system they are in allows it. Schools are required to honor the player's scholarship for four years if he sucks on the field, is injured and can't perform, etc. but get no protection if that same player blows up and gets a better offer from a competitor on next season's schedule.
This is all headed towards a players union and collective bargaining, for better or worse. The leagues won't be able to set policies that apply to the entire group without some way to negotiate with the entire body.
Quote from: DirkPiggler on May 13, 2024, 08:20 AMContracts.
I'm betting you signed a contract that limited your ability to work for other direct competitors, share information you may have learned during your time at your previous job, etc. Maybe, if you're valuable enough, you even had to pay a buyout to your company to leave before the contract expired, or your new employer paid it for you.
That's the big problem here. It's not THAT the players are making money. That's been a long time coming for reasons so many others have pointed out. The issue is that they are able to take that money and leave with no restrictions.
And that's not the players' fault. The system they are in allows it. Schools are required to honor the player's scholarship for four years if he sucks on the field, is injured and can't perform, etc. but get no protection if that same player blows up and gets a better offer from a competitor on next season's schedule.
This is all headed towards a players union and collective bargaining, for better or worse. The leagues won't be able to set policies that apply to the entire group without some way to negotiate with the entire body.
Those contracts won't be valid any longer.
Quote from: vegashog on May 12, 2024, 09:15 PMwhere was the concern for these kids when they were operating in a system that was found to be unconstitutional by one of the most conservative scotus ever? oh yeah, your feels.
not a damn thing wrong thinking the direction of the sport is not to your liking, you have lots of company. to try to interject the financial well being of the players into the argument is kinda weak, imo.
they were denied the right to make money, like any other college student. it was the stupid rules that brought this on. why weren't they changed?
funny how the finger seems to get pointed at the 'greedy player', not the system that only stayed the way it did because the ncaa had the money ($68 million thru 2021) to spend fighting it in court for years on end.
The rules didn't cause this. The rules held it off for as long as they could.
I'm just not that sympathetic to the argument that the kids were getting taken advantage of by the schools. I've got a 17 year old junior who thinks she might want to go to TCU. The tuition there is $63k a year. With room and board and living expenses it's going to be $100k a year easy. We can argue all day about it being worth it, I don't think it is, but I see a shitload of athletes, many of them from poor underprivileged places, who are attending TCU for more or less free. In practical terms that means they are getting paid roughly $100k a year to go to school. My kid won't be going there unless she gets a shitload of academic scholarships because it's too expensive for me to make any sense of the sacrifice it would entail. TCU ain't Harvard even though it costs more. But I'll be damned if I'm going to be lectured about "poor wittle minority athletes" who are being preyed upon by these "mean old white men".
Quote from: The Whyte Boar on May 13, 2024, 08:57 AMThe rules didn't cause this. The rules held it off for as long as they could.
I'm just not that sympathetic to the argument that the kids were getting taken advantage of by the schools. I've got a 17 year old junior who thinks she might want to go to TCU. The tuition there is $63k a year. With room and board and living expenses it's going to be $100k a year easy. We can argue all day about it being worth it, I don't think it is, but I see a shitload of athletes, many of them from poor underprivileged places, who are attending TCU for more or less free. In practical terms that means they are getting paid roughly $100k a year to go to school. My kid won't be going there unless she gets a shitload of academic scholarships because it's too expensive for me to make any sense of the sacrifice it would entail. TCU ain't Harvard even though it costs more. But I'll be damned if I'm going to be lectured about "poor wittle minority athletes" who are being preyed upon by these "mean old white men".
The counter argument player activists make is that those players aren't getting the full value of that education because they are there to play ball. Paraphrasing noted scholar Cardale Jones, they ain't come to play school.
I counter that with this example. If you give a $250,000 Lamborghini to some turd like Keith Olbermann who never learned to drive a car, that doesn't lessen the value of the automobile. It just means that he's too stupid to take advantage of something that holds real worth. It's not the fault of the schools if their scholarship athletes don't use that degree for the higher earning potential it gives them.
But again, the open market person in me says that players should be sharing in some of the profits they generate, or at the very least should be able to cut side deals that help them earn money when the rules limit what they can be paid to the terms of the scholarship.
Less than 2% of NCAA football and basketball athletes make it to the professional level; put another way, over 98% of these athletes will only have their college years to profit financially on their physical talents. While a "free" college education is a valuable gift in the right hands, the sad truth is many, if not most, college athletes are so poorly prepared and/or motivated to take advantage of that education that it loses much of its worth.
On the other hand, some colleges and universities make obscene amounts of revenue from their Athletic Departments. During Covid (2020-2021) the University of Arkansas took in $152,513,755.00 in total sports revenue and was only 20th on the list (The Ohio State topped the list at $251,615,345.00).
I'm still not sure what to make of all this. I do feel that college athletes should receive compensation in addition to their education but I'm not sure about what the source/sources of that money should be and how or if that money should be distributed equally among athletes.
However, what I am sure about is that the entire process of compensation, transfers and total limits must be strictly regulated and enforced or else college sports will cease to exist as we know it.
Quote from: Usafhawg on May 13, 2024, 05:42 AMWhat is wrong with that? I did that the last time I switched companies. Coaches do it all the time. What is the difference?
How many companies do you tailgate for?
Quote from: Third_down_draw on May 13, 2024, 10:53 AMHow many companies do you tailgate for?
I don't understand the question.
Quote from: Usafhawg on May 13, 2024, 11:15 AMI don't understand the question.
You wouldn't. It's pretty obvious.
Quote from: The Whyte Boar on May 13, 2024, 11:54 AMYou wouldn't. It's pretty obvious.
Will the tailgate I work for help start the civil war too?
Quote from: Usafhawg on May 13, 2024, 11:59 AMWill the tailgate I work for help start the civil war too?
One trick pony, you are. Typical government worker.
Quote from: The Whyte Boar on May 13, 2024, 12:06 PMOne trick pony, you are. Typical government worker.
Go chase an ambulance
You CANNOT pay the players. I don't care how creative you get with the contracts, the unions, the regulations, etc. It simply won't work.
The minute you start paying them, you are now a professional sports league, and a shitty, minor-league one at that. How many fans show up at G-League games? At XFL games? At NWA Naturals games? Not many. Do those leagues have lucrative TV contracts? No.
So where's the money to pay these players going to come from? NCAA football and basketball will survive for a few more years due to slick marketing and simple tradition, but it won't be long before there are very few butts in the seats and eyes on the television sets because you've taken away the one thing that made college athletics better than professional athletics to a lot of people, i.e., that the participants were AMATEURS.
Then they will have finally killed the goose that laid the golden egg. Who will be left to take care of the poor, abused athletes then?
uhh, the collectives are already paying them.
if you have coaches with a clue and team that are competitive, people will support them. i'm sure if cal gets us to a final four this season, all you doomsayers will be here to say how bad college sports suck.
Quote from: Corn Pop on May 13, 2024, 01:35 PMThe minute you start paying them, you are now a professional sports league, and a shitty, minor-league one at that. How many fans show up at G-League games? At XFL games? At NWA Naturals games? Not many. Do those leagues have lucrative TV contracts? No.
I don't think this analogy works. Those leagues and teams never had a big fan base to start with.
Quote from: Sus-Scrofa on May 13, 2024, 02:24 PMI don't think this analogy works. Those leagues and teams never had a big fan base to start with.
Sure it does. The value is provided the teams, not the kids.
I'm sure college sports will be fine. There are people who love "professional" sports and I assume there is a subset of people who will love "semi-professional" college sports teams. I hate professional sports and assume I'll end up hating the semi-pro college system as well. Time will tell.
Legislation is coming at some point. There's a growing amount of prominent people such as Saban that are clamoring for reform.
When and what it would look like is the question. But certainly before the death of collegiate sports.
Quote from: piglosopher on May 13, 2024, 09:23 PMLegislation is coming at some point. There's a growing amount of prominent people such as Saban that are clamoring for reform.
When and what it would look like is the question. But certainly before the death of collegiate sports.
I agree legislation is probably coming. Just not sure how it stands up to court room challenges based on the constitution
Quote from: DirkPiggler on May 13, 2024, 09:45 AMThe counter argument player activists make is that those players aren't getting the full value of that education because they are there to play ball. Paraphrasing noted scholar Cardale Jones, they ain't come to play
This is probably just me being slightly pessimistic about it but I do not believe a college education is worth a whole lot these days. The connections and local fame they get are probably worth way more than any degree they can get from the school. I have no issues with players being able to make a good chunk of a change while they're playing.
It is not the paying of players that Saban et.al. is bothered by - it's the transfer portal.
The most successful programs have all been recruiting with impermissible benefits. The difference is they could stash starting-caliber players on their bench to keep them off their opponents rosters for the competitive advantage. The portal dismantled that.
Now the playing field is much more level (although not completely).
Quote from: olive_branch_hog on May 14, 2024, 02:56 PMIt is not the paying of players that Saban et.al. is bothered by - it's the transfer portal.
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5339689/2024/03/13/nick-saban-nil-college-sports-congress/
https://x.com/rossdellenger/status/1790524340989210674
Quote from: Pig Benis on May 14, 2024, 07:50 PMhttps://x.com/rossdellenger/status/1790524340989210674
Hate to say it, but this looks like one of those settlements where the lawyers make a lot of money but nobody else does. 21 million per year in revenue sharing? That's nothing.
Backpay? Reparations, anyone? D.C. politicians and plaintiff's lawyers, yeah that's the ticket, they'll fix it. College sports is like the chicken running around with its head cut off, its dead but it doesn't know it yet.
Quote from: Corn Pop on May 13, 2024, 01:35 PMYou CANNOT pay the players. I don't care how creative you get with the contracts, the unions, the regulations, etc. It simply won't work.
The minute you start paying them, you are now a professional sports league, and a shitty, minor-league one at that. How many fans show up at G-League games? At XFL games? At NWA Naturals games? Not many. Do those leagues have lucrative TV contracts? No.
So where's the money to pay these players going to come from? NCAA football and basketball will survive for a few more years due to slick marketing and simple tradition, but it won't be long before there are very few butts in the seats and eyes on the television sets because you've taken away the one thing that made college athletics better than professional athletics to a lot of people, i.e., that the participants were AMATEURS.
Then they will have finally killed the goose that laid the golden egg. Who will be left to take care of the poor, abused athletes then?
They've been paying players for a few years now. Did people stop watching or stop going to games?
Quote from: piglosopher on May 14, 2024, 03:38 PMhttps://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5339689/2024/03/13/nick-saban-nil-college-sports-congress/
No subscription so cannot read it.
Nevertheless, he lost his advantage and since there was nothing left to prove, he got out. (Regardless of what he is willing to say publicly)
Quote from: Trigger7672 on May 15, 2024, 09:18 AMThey've been paying players for a few years now. Did people stop watching or stop going to games?
It won't die instantly. It'll be a slow and depressing death, kind of like Sears & Roebucks. But make no mistake, the death knell has been struck. Ed O'Bannon will go down in history.
I can't quote you any official attendance figures or Neilson ratings since they started paying players, but I can say that I've never seen as many seats consistently empty at Bud Walton Arena, except for marquee games, as I saw this year. Same thing for the football Hogs in Razorback Stadium. You can blame that on a myriad of factors, but I can't help but think that NIL is in the middle of it somewhere.
I've heard many people say they are glad the players are getting paid now. I haven't heard any say, however, that they like the product on the field better now, not one. Over time, that will take its toll.
I take no joy in saying this. I say it with sadness and, yes, bitterness. I hate that my grandchildren will never experience the awesome era that was true, amateur college football and basketball. But I know I have no say in the matter. What's done is done. I'll still be watching college sports this coming season, and rooting on the Hogs, just with a little less fervor.
fans don't show when the team is playing like shit. someone should look into that.
basketball tickets have been sold out the last two seasons and it would be a miracle if they DIDN'T this year. and that despite more nil money being pumped into the team than ever before.
i have no idea where the baseball team ranks in nil, but you can bet some of those guys are getting theirs and it damn sure hasn't kept the fans away.
when it keeps the razorbacks from being competitive, and not the lazy or incompetent coaching, i'll start getting worried.
Quote from: vegashog on May 15, 2024, 08:36 PMfans don't show when the team is playing like shit. someone should look into that.
basketball tickets have been sold out the last two seasons and it would be a miracle if they DIDN'T this year. and that despite more nil money being pumped into the team than ever before.
i have no idea where the baseball team ranks in nil, but you can bet some of those guys are getting theirs and it damn sure hasn't kept the fans away.
when it keeps the razorbacks from being competitive, and not the lazy or incompetent coaching, i'll start getting worried.
Can you say that you like the product on the field better, post-NIL?
me personally, i really don't care about the 'product' or the 'good of the game'. imo neither has done arkansas the favors other programs seem to get.
when we are good at football, it's because we have a coach that knows how to get shit done. we've done ok at the other two big sports so i don't see nil as a hindrance to having a competitive football team. yet
Quote from: vegashog on May 15, 2024, 09:40 PMme personally, i really don't care about the 'product' or the 'good of the game'. imo neither has done arkansas the favors other programs seem to get.
when we are good at football, it's because we have a coach that knows how to get shit done. we've done ok at the other two big sports so i don't see nil as a hindrance to having a competitive football team. yet
I'll take that as a "no." I'm still waiting to find someone who can answer "yes." I thought for sure you'd be the first. I'm now more sure than ever that I am right.
Quote from: Corn Pop on May 15, 2024, 09:44 PMI'll take that as a "no." I'm still waiting to find someone who can answer "yes." I thought for sure you'd be the first. I'm now more sure than ever that I am right.
your reading comprehension needs work. how can i say the last two years of football have sucked because of nil and not because we have someone who appears to be in way over his head. we sucked at football under bert, excelled at it with petrino, both didn't have any idea what nil even was.
again, if cal gets us to a final four will you still be on here saying that the sport is dying and people are not watching because of nil?
Once again, it's not necessarily the NIL that is killing the appeal of college sports, although that's not helping, it's the unlimited transfer portal.
Simply reshuffling the deck and fielding a pickup ringer team every single year is not a way to build any kind of fan attachment to the program. ANY program. Even though 4-5 years was the previous limit, watching kids develop and getting excited about what he's going to do as a junior or senior was a thing. It's not a thing anymore. If a player is going to do something great as a junior or senior, he is going to do it somewhere else. Then some kid from Middle Tennessee State will come in and be a quote unquote "Razorback" for a year.
That is not sustainable. Far fewer people are going to follow sports built like that.
Quote from: vegashog on May 15, 2024, 09:56 PMyour reading comprehension needs work. how can i say the last two years of football have sucked because of nil and not because we have someone who appears to be in way over his head. we sucked at football under bert, excelled at it with petrino, both didn't have any idea what nil even was.
again, if cal gets us to a final four will you still be on here saying that the sport is dying and people are not watching because of nil?
Quote from: vegashog on May 15, 2024, 09:56 PMyour reading comprehension needs work. how can i say the last two years of football have sucked because of nil and not because we have someone who appears to be in way over his head. we sucked at football under bert, excelled at it with petrino, both didn't have any idea what nil even was.
again, if cal gets us to a final four will you still be on here saying that the sport is dying and people are not watching because of nil?
All you had to do was say yes. You blew it. I was going to send you an Ed O'Bannon bobble-head doll for being the first person I've ever met who likes the product on the field better, post-NIL. Guess I'll keep looking.
Quote from: Corn Pop on May 15, 2024, 09:22 PMCan you say that you like the product on the field better, post-NIL?
How has the product changed at all in football, basketball, and baseball. I'm not talking about Arkansas specifically, I'm talking about overall. Seems like the exact same product to me. I think the quality of play in college basketball has come down over the last 30 or so years but that has nothing to do with NIL.
Saying you've never seen so many empty seats in football and basketball just lets me know you don't go to games.
Quote from: Corn Pop on May 15, 2024, 10:13 PMAll you had to do was say yes. You blew it. I was going to send you an Ed O'Bannon bobble-head doll for being the first person I've ever met who likes the product on the field better, post-NIL. Guess I'll keep looking.
From your last few posts on this it seems like you're blaming the decreased attendance and interest in football, specifically Arkansas football, on NIL nearly exclusively. That's one factor of many, and to me not close to the most important one.
First, as others have said more eloquently than I could, our apathy towards Arkansas football is primarily due to a lack of leadership. We have proven time and again that when we have a high quality head coach we support the team with our dollars and with asses in the seats. We haven't had that kind of leadership in a long time, really since we fired our current offensive coordinator over some relatively trivial HR bullshit. If we had hired Mike Norvell in 2017 instead of the worst coach in major college football history, or Lane Kiffin in 2019 over a career position coach, our attendance and contributions would be through the roof right now.
The availability of every single game on TV, streaming, or both has more to do with attendance being down across the board than any other single factor. It's hard for most people to justify spending upwards of $2,000 in contributions and tickets to drive three hours or more to watch a game that they could just as easily watch from their favorite chair at home with their choice of food and drink at normal prices. People will still show up for big games if they feel the team has a chance of winning. But they aren't spending the time or money to watch us hopefully take care of Kent State or Western Carolina.
As for NIL's effect, we feel it here because we never truly played the game with the serious football programs. The only thing that has changed with respect to player payroll at Alabama, Auburn, Texas A&M, etc. is that it's all out in the open (and the players are getting 1099s). As
@Show-Me Hog said, it's not the kids getting money that's harming the quality of the game. It's the fact that if they don't get their money they can transfer one state over, get the money they want and not lose a snap's worth of eligibility.
Guys like Saban are getting out not because of the mess NIL has made. They're doing so because a major competitive advantage is gone. They can no longer stockpile four and five star players three-deep, because quite a few of their backups are deciding to take a similar payday from Ole Miss, Arkansas, etc. and get playing time versus having to hope the guy in front of them either sucks ass or gets hurt to ever see meaningful snaps. Nick longs for the good ol' days, when he only had to compete with probably a dozen schools who could afford the kind of player payroll he had, and the NCAA and SEC had major barriers in place to prevent roster defections.
Quote from: vegashog on May 15, 2024, 08:36 PMi have no idea where the baseball team ranks in nil, but you can bet some of those guys are getting theirs and it damn sure hasn't kept the fans away.
when it keeps the razorbacks from being competitive, and not the lazy or incompetent coaching, i'll start getting worried.
Speaking of, I hope John Tyson is a baseball fan because there will be a line around the block waiting to pay Gaeckle this offseason.
https://www.si.com/college/arkansas/football/ticket-sec-razorbacks-alabama-georgia-texas-aggies-missouri-mississippi
Some interesting data on ticket sales and fan support in the SEC. NIL may be down at Arkansas but overall revenue is not. Hog fans support the athletic programs at Arkansas better than most of the "big boys of the SEC"
in 2007, the Razorbacks led the conference with $28.8 million in ticket sales. Mississippi State had $6.8 million and Ole Miss had $10.4 million. Half the SEC didn't break $20 million, including Kentucky, Georgia and Florida.
Arkansas consistently leads or is in the top of the SEC in revenue by ticket sales due to the their overall athletic program. They consistently outpace Alabama, Georgia and LSU even though each school has much larger football stadiums and a much higher level of football success. Football attendance drives revenue but basketball and baseball due to many more home games more than make up for the difference.
Here's how the Hogs have finished in ticket revenue versus the entire SEC. It reads as if recapping college baseball finishes rather than what one might expect from a financial report as far as the Razorbacks are concerned. The top-ranked team is in parenthesis if it isn't Arkansas.
2005: No. 2 (Tennessee)
2006: No. 3 (*Texas A&M)
2007: No. 1
2008: No. 3 (*Texas A&M)
2009: No. 2 (LSU)
2010: No. 2 (Tennessee)
2011: No. 1
2012: No. 1
2013: No. 1
2014: No. 4 (LSU)
2015: No. 4 (Texas A&M)
2016: No. 4 (Texas A&M)
2017: No. 3 (Texas A&M)
2018: No. 3 (Texas A&M)
2019: No. 3 (Texas A&M)
2020: No. 7 (Texas A&M)
2021: No. 1
2022: No. 2 (Texas A&M)
2023: No. 2 (Texas A&M)
* Not yet in the SEC