NIL

[The Whyte Boar]

This. And once that new deal was in place, it all went to shit.

That's what sucks so bad.  That fat coach just flat out quit once he got the money.  He went from "I would pay you for the job" and "You won't have to fire me" to sitting in his ass waiting for a buyout.

[DirkPiggler]

This. And once that new deal was in place, it all went to shit.

The end came when Sam fired Judy Henry and hired Jabba the Agent.  That was the first sign that the "Aw shucks, this is the only job I ever wanted" bullshit was just that.  He didn't need Jimmy to get him a fair contract. The only reason to hire that dump truck load of shit is to fuck over your current employer or find another job.  And to be fair it worked for Pittman just like it was supposed to. 

I'm at the point now where I say fuck dealing with that guy.  We're going to end up with shitty coaches anyway, and apparently the admin is fine with that.  Lets not enrich that bastard further in the process.  My primary hope is that somehow fat Jimmy gets crossways with the Mossad. 

[DRYANKNPULL]

The end came when Sam fired Judy Henry and hired Jabba the Agent.  That was the first sign that the "Aw shucks, this is the only job I ever wanted" bullshit was just that.  He didn't need Jimmy to get him a fair contract. The only reason to hire that dump truck load of shit is to fuck over your current employer or find another job.  And to be fair it worked for Pittman just like it was supposed to. 

I'm at the point now where I say fuck dealing with that guy.  We're going to end up with shitty coaches anyway, and apparently the admin is fine with that.  Lets not enrich that bastard further in the process.  My primary hope is that somehow fat Jimmy gets crossways with the Mossad. 

I get that sentiment. That's what you get when you hire a retirement aged career position coach. We put him in a position where he had no choice but to make it a cash grab. Sam knew he couldn't aw shucks his way into being a sec contender.  We put it on the tee for him.

[animal]

I get that sentiment. That's what you get when you hire a retirement aged career position coach. We put him in a position where he had no choice but to make it a cash grab. Sam knew he couldn't aw shucks his way into being a sec contender.  We put it on the tee for him.

And by feeling some kind of way about him moving on from Judy Henry is meaningless considering the vast majority of hires we could make would likely go thru some kind of slime ball agent such as Sexton. I can't entirely blame Pittman for doing what he did but that doesn't mean I gotta like it either.

His reasons for hiring Sexton were very transparent and this is where HY pissed down his leg when he should have shown some backbone. Hold to the original arrangement , but now with bigger numbers and if he walks he walks. Pittman would be some other programs problem now or he would have caved.

As someone else mentioned recently the formula for any Arkansas football coach seems to be that if you can beat Texas you are going to get a raise and a fat buyout package.

Coaches don't come to Arkansas to advance their career. They come here to get paid for meh until they get paid to not meh anymore.

[piglosopher]

Bert mentored him well in that regard.

Everything felt different after the 2021 season, no?

That 2nd contract is a harbinger.

[The Whyte Boar]

I really can't fault them for paying Pittman.  He had exceeded expectations at that point and we needed to pay him market rate.  What I fault is the cheapness of this administration and our school in general when it comes to coaches.  You literally can't pay too much for a good one.  We need to realize that and man up like other SEC schools do.  You may overpay for a turd or two, but don't act like it's the end of the world because you have to pay a buyout.  Pay it and move on to the next guy.  You don't have to keep an underperforming guy for the better part of a decade because it will save you a few million.  That's dumb logic that will cost you money in the long run.

Of course, that's just a byproduct of our convoluted coach salary funding scheme necessitated by the state law limiting state employee salaries.

If we had true visionaries in place, we would be lobbying to get an exemption for coaches.  But that would mean the Razorback Foundation would lose some influence and the school would have to budget in the operating fund for coaches' salaries.  Too many fiefdoms and bigwigs get disturbed doing that.

[DirkPiggler]

And by feeling some kind of way about him moving on from Judy Henry is meaningless considering the vast majority of hires we could make would likely go thru some kind of slime ball agent such as Sexton. I can't entirely blame Pittman for doing what he did but that doesn't mean I gotta like it either.

His reasons for hiring Sexton were very transparent and this is where HY pissed down his leg when he should have shown some backbone. Hold to the original arrangement , but now with bigger numbers and if he walks he walks. Pittman would be some other programs problem now or he would have caved.

As someone else mentioned recently the formula for any Arkansas football coach seems to be that if you can beat Texas you are going to get a raise and a fat buyout package.

Coaches don't come to Arkansas to advance their career. They come here to get paid for meh until they get paid to not meh anymore.

You can't really blame Pittman for hiring the best agent, but on the other hand he can't have it both ways.  He doesn't get the benefit of "loving that helmet" or any other platitudes when he hired the agent that under the best interpretation fucks us to the wall on behalf of his clients, and at worst actively campaigns to keep his best clients away from us regardless of what we're willing to pay.

It's similar to why Nutt's personal life was an issue when it wasn't (or shouldn't have been) for other coaches.  Hootie used the "fine Christian man" schtick to keep his job when he was underperforming, so being proven to be a fraud in that regard was fair game in calling for his head later.

I really can't fault them for paying Pittman.  He had exceeded expectations at that point and we needed to pay him market rate.  What I fault is the cheapness of this administration and our school in general when it comes to coaches.  You literally can't pay too much for a good one.  We need to realize that and man up like other SEC schools do.  You may overpay for a turd or two, but don't act like it's the end of the world because you have to pay a buyout.  Pay it and move on to the next guy.  You don't have to keep an underperforming guy for the better part of a decade because it will save you a few million.  That's dumb logic that will cost you money in the long run.

Of course, that's just a byproduct of our convoluted coach salary funding scheme necessitated by the state law limiting state employee salaries.

If we had true visionaries in place, we would be lobbying to get an exemption for coaches.  But that would mean the Razorback Foundation would lose some influence and the school would have to budget in the operating fund for coaches' salaries.  Too many fiefdoms and bigwigs get disturbed doing that.

Absolutely agree that Sam deserved the pay raise at the time based on what he'd accomplished relative to expectations.  What he didn't need or deserve was the massive buyout when we were competing against absolutely no one for his services, either at the time or for the foreseeable future. 

[vegashog]

none of them deserve the massive buyouts. as of the end of last season, p5 schools are obligated for something like $146 million in buyout money. that doesn't include assistants.

[The Whyte Boar]

You can't really blame Pittman for hiring the best agent, but on the other hand he can't have it both ways.  He doesn't get the benefit of "loving that helmet" or any other platitudes when he hired the agent that under the best interpretation fucks us to the wall on behalf of his clients, and at worst actively campaigns to keep his best clients away from us regardless of what we're willing to pay.

It's similar to why Nutt's personal life was an issue when it wasn't (or shouldn't have been) for other coaches.  Hootie used the "fine Christian man" schtick to keep his job when he was underperforming, so being proven to be a fraud in that regard was fair game in calling for his head later.

Absolutely agree that Sam deserved the pay raise at the time based on what he'd accomplished relative to expectations.  What he didn't need or deserve was the massive buyout when we were competing against absolutely no one for his services, either at the time or for the foreseeable future. 

It's not massive.  It's standard and even relative chicken feed to the buyouts paid by other SEC schools. 

I don't like the salary buyout game in place these days, but it is what it is.  Arkansas is not a big enough job to set the trend of getting away from it.  It Alabama, Ohio State, Georgia, etc. want to announce that they will not give big buyouts and put performance rates in their contracts, maybe the trend will catch on.  But Arkansas will never be a trend setter in that regard.  No one wants our job bad enough.  In fact, now it's the opposite.  Because of our bad hires, it's seen as coaching death.  Bielema's career was nearly ended.  Morris will never be a head coach again.  And Sam?  Well, he ain't doing anything to show that you can win at Arkansas.  So if anything, competent coaches are going to want an extra premium to come here.

We either realize that, or we continue to hire turds nobody else wants.  Maybe we get lucky and find a good one.  But like Sam has shown us, there are reasons nobody else wanted them.

If we are going to go that route again, we may as well try to mend fences with someone like Lunny and get him back here.

[DirkPiggler]

It's not massive.  It's standard and even relative chicken feed to the buyouts paid by other SEC schools. 

I don't like the salary buyout game in place these days, but it is what it is.  Arkansas is not a big enough job to set the trend of getting away from it.  It Alabama, Ohio State, Georgia, etc. want to announce that they will not give big buyouts and put performance rates in their contracts, maybe the trend will catch on.  But Arkansas will never be a trend setter in that regard.  No one wants our job bad enough.  In fact, now it's the opposite.  Because of our bad hires, it's seen as coaching death.  Bielema's career was nearly ended.  Morris will never be a head coach again.  And Sam?  Well, he ain't doing anything to show that you can win at Arkansas.  So if anything, competent coaches are going to want an extra premium to come here.

We either realize that, or we continue to hire turds nobody else wants.  Maybe we get lucky and find a good one.  But like Sam has shown us, there are reasons nobody else wanted them.

If we are going to go that route again, we may as well try to me d fences with someone like Lunny and get him back here.

It's massive relative to what was needed. 

Your points are valid for when we hire the next coach.  We will have to probably overpay and have a buyout in excess of market value to attract someone decent.  But given that Sam was already here and not going to receive offers to go somewhere better, there was no need to make his buyout prohibitively high.  You can argue that the buyout isn't that bad, but given that we are unwilling to fire an underperforming coach because of it, for whatever reason it is clearly prohibitive for us.  We effectively gave a lifetime contract to a guy who was intended to be a 4-5 year bridge to the next (hopefully) long term solution.

I will counter that Sam shows that even an average to slightly below coach can have some success here.  Whatever people in the coaching community may think of him as a person or a position coach, I guarantee none of them think he's some mastermind as a head coach.  If a coach is scared off from this job because Sam Pittman could only muster nine and seven win seasons, he's not going to make it here or anywhere else.

[The Whyte Boar]

It's massive relative to what was needed. 

Your points are valid for when we hire the next coach.  We will have to probably overpay and have a buyout in excess of market value to attract someone decent.  But given that Sam was already here and not going to receive offers to go somewhere better, there was no need to make his buyout prohibitively high.  You can argue that the buyout isn't that bad, but given that we are unwilling to fire an underperforming coach because of it, for whatever reason it is clearly prohibitive for us.  We effectively gave a lifetime contract to a guy who was intended to be a 4-5 year bridge to the next (hopefully) long term solution.

I will counter that Sam shows that even an average to slightly below coach can have some success here.  Whatever people in the coaching community may think of him as a person or a position coach, I guarantee none of them think he's some mastermind as a head coach. 

I suspect Sam's leverage was that he threatened to go to the lake which would have left us scrambling to find a replacement.  And of course, the fanbase would have been pissed.  And I suspect that our unwillingness to pay his buyout last year wasn't so much a reflection of our inability or unwillingness to bear the expense, but a "frick you", you're going to stay here and coach this schit show and then get fired eventually.  Probably a lot of butthurt by the PTB over feeling like Aw Shucks Sam held them over a barrel and now they are going to hold him over one and eventually embarrass him when he wants to do nothing more than throw back a few kobeers on the lake.  And he is stubbornly going to make them.

Everybody suffers, noses are sliced cleanly from faces, and the program tanks.  In other words, the typical Arkansas coaching saga.

[DirkPiggler]

I suspect Sam's leverage was that he threatened to go to the lake which would have left us scrambling to find a replacement.  And of course, the fanbase would have been pissed.  And I suspect that our unwillingness to pay his buyout last year wasn't so much a reflection of our inability or unwillingness to bear the expense, but a "frick you", you're going to stay here and coach this schit show and then get fired eventually.  Probably a lot of butthurt by the PTB over feeling like Aw Shucks Sam held them over a barrel and now they are going to hold him over one and eventually embarrass him when he wants to do nothing more than throw back a few kobeers on the lake.  And he is stubbornly going to make them.

Everybody suffers, noses are sliced cleanly from faces, and the program tanks.  In other words, the typical Arkansas coaching saga.

That's possible.  Dumb for us not to call his bluff on it, but par for the course. 

Worst case we could've promoted Odom, which is likely who we'll end up with regardless.  I guess he'll be slightly more palatable to the average fan thanks to his redemption at UNLV versus coming off a mediocre tenure at Missouri. 

[animal]

It takes a ton of resources to hire a new coach and Arkansas hasnt exactly lit the world on fire with football coaching hires. So those buyouts aren't just for the coach so much as it saves the school from itself. 

This isn't the olden days where Paw Paw has his short list and everyone knows who's on it. AND I think Pittman does get a pass because he's well liked. People want to see him succeed. I know I do and still do but am not optimistic about his future.

At this stage of the season you can't fire him. Let him have time, let Petrino continue to work with this kid or the next or the one after that. All in all when they hired Petrino I felt like we had entered two years pass land and that may still be the case if they can win 5 or 6.

[DirkPiggler]

It takes a ton of resources to hire a new coach and Arkansas hasnt exactly lit the world on fire with football coaching hires. So those buyouts aren't just for the coach so much as it saves the school from itself.

This isn't the olden days where Paw Paw has his short list and everyone knows who's on it. AND I think Pittman does get a pass because he's well liked. People want to see him succeed. I know I do and still do but am not optimistic about his future.

At this stage of the season you can't fire him. Let him have time, let Petrino continue to work with this kid or the next or the one after that. All in all when they hired Petrino I felt like we had entered two years pass land and that may still be the case if they can win 5 or 6.

Of course you can't fire him at 3-2 with both losses against ranked teams away from home (disregard for now the fact that neither team will end the season ranked).  You HAVE to fire him if he finishes below 6-6, and you need to do it if at any point he gets to 3-6 or 4-7 to keep him from pulling a win out of his ass and making the buyout go back up.

[mde114]

Turns out the big Ragweed/Turnpike show in Stillwater is for Okie State's NIL (at least some proceeds). Meanwhile, Arkansas is running Justin Moore out there for our NIL.

Where's Cash, Campbell, and Levon when you need them?

[Third_down_draw]

Turns out the big Ragweed/Turnpike show in Stillwater is for Okie State's NIL (at least some proceeds). Meanwhile, Arkansas is running Justin Moore out there for our NIL.

Where's Cash, Campbell, and Levon when you need them?

LIZHONEY2U is the opening act

[Show-Me Hog]

Turns out the big Ragweed/Turnpike show in Stillwater is for Okie State's NIL (at least some proceeds). Meanwhile, Arkansas is running Justin Moore out there for our NIL.

Where's Cash, Campbell, and Levon when you need them?

Even I, a bigger cynic than Larry David, didn't anticipate that "NIL" would so quickly become just a blatant facade for paying players.

[Lurk]

Turns out the big Ragweed/Turnpike show in Stillwater is for Okie State's NIL (at least some proceeds). Meanwhile, Arkansas is running Justin Moore out there for our NIL.

Where's Cash, Campbell, and Levon when you need them?

I don't understand the Justin Moore hate. I like his music and he's bigger than Ragweed.

[buff2.0]

I don't understand the Justin Moore hate. I like his music and he's bigger than Ragweed.

But I would hazard a guess that the Ragweed/Turnpike combo are bigger in their home state than Justin Moore is in his. 

So, I guess I'm saying blame the fans.  Now I feel dirty.

[mde114]

No disrespect to Justin Moore, but he ain't selling out football stadiums.