The Mizzou Game Discussion

[The Whyte Boar]

We are 115th in turnovers.

We are 103rd in penalty yardage per game.

We are a horribly coached team.

[Feral]

We are 115th in turnovers.

We are 103rd in penalty yardage per game.

We are a horribly coached team.

But Pittman told the team not to fumble or commit penalties.

What more do you want from him?!

[DirkPiggler]

We are 115th in turnovers.

We are 103rd in penalty yardage per game.

We are a horribly coached team.

I can see Barton's argument on turnovers.  I don't necessarily agree, but I don't think we just completely ignore the subject of ball security either.

Penalties are the most damning indictment.  It doesn't take talent to know the snap count, not jump offsides on defense, not pick up a ball carrier and body slam him, etc...which seemed to the naked eye to be our most common penalties (the first two categories). 

[Usafhawg]

But Pittman told the team not to fumble or commit penalties.

What more do you want from him?!

For the 2021 season, Arkansas finished #21 in Turnover margin (Georgia was 35, Alabama was 41)
For the 2022 season, Arkansas finished #42 in Turnover margin (Georgia was 65, Alabama was 77)
For the 2023 season, Arkansas finished #108 in Turnover margin (Georgia was 57, Alabama was 22)
This season, Arkansas is #119 (Georgia is 70, Alabama is 28)

Did Pittman just get lazy the last two years? Looks like Kirby could use some more discipline on this too. Saban must've lost focus in '22 and forgot to discipline his team.

**Edited to add that I got the stats from here: https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/stat/turnover-margin-per-game?date=2024-12-06

[Usafhawg]

I can see Barton's argument on turnovers.  I don't necessarily agree, but I don't think we just completely ignore the subject of ball security either.

Penalties are the most damning indictment.  It doesn't take talent to know the snap count, not jump offsides on defense, not pick up a ball carrier and body slam him, etc...which seemed to the naked eye to be our most common penalties (the first two categories). 

Using that same page: https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/stat/penalties-per-game

Penalties per game:
Georgia - 5.5
Arkansas - 7.0
Ole Miss - 7.7
Alabama - 7.8

[DirkPiggler]

Using that same page: https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/stat/penalties-per-game

Penalties per game:
Georgia - 5.5
Arkansas - 7.0
Ole Miss - 7.7
Alabama - 7.8

I think a lot of Alabama fans would agree they haven't been well coached this year.  9-3 with that talent is probably equivalent to 6-6 with ours. 

Kiffin is the outlier I guess.  I don't think anyone has ever accused him of running a tight ship.  His advantage is in play calling/scheme and, at least this year, talent.  But it's fair to say he underachieved relative to what he had on his roster as well. 

[DirkPiggler]

Using that same page: https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/stat/penalties-per-game

Penalties per game:
Georgia - 5.5
Arkansas - 7.0
Ole Miss - 7.7
Alabama - 7.8

Great site. 

Arkansas penalties under Pittman:

2020:  6.4 (81st nationally)
2021:  7.9 (121st)
2022:  6.4 (81st)
2023:  6.3 (87th)
2024:  7.0 (108th)

It seems like a recurring problem when you are consistently in the bottom half to bottom third nationally in penalties per game. 

[DirkPiggler]

More from the same site...fumbles lost per game (this makes more sense than turnover margin if we're grading how well the offense takes care of the ball):

2020:  0.7 (78th)
2021:  0.3 (7th)
2022:  0.8 (90th)
2023:  0.9 (119th)
2024:  1.2 (133rd out of 133...DFL)

We had one really good year, which happened to be the one where we won nine games.  And the rest of the years we were always among or alone as the worst in the country. 

The saddest thing about these numbers is that if we just improve to our 2023 rate which was bottom fifteen nationally, we likely win 2-3 more games depending on which fumbles you take away. 

[PHARMHOG]

For the 2021 season, Arkansas finished #21 in Turnover margin (Georgia was 35, Alabama was 41)
For the 2022 season, Arkansas finished #42 in Turnover margin (Georgia was 65, Alabama was 77)
For the 2023 season, Arkansas finished #108 in Turnover margin (Georgia was 57, Alabama was 22)
This season, Arkansas is #119 (Georgia is 70, Alabama is 28)

Did Pittman just get lazy the last two years? Looks like Kirby could use some more discipline on this too. Saban must've lost focus in '22 and forgot to discipline his team.

**Edited to add that I got the stats from here: https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/stat/turnover-margin-per-game?date=2024-12-06

I was dumb to ask...

Quote from: PHARMHOG on Oct 22, 2024, 12:54 PM
Would the TOs be attributed to players or coaching or preparation?

Such a dumb question. Yeah, coaching and preparation are attributing to all of the TO's.

This is the bull shit that our fans do. Do you really think, any coaching staff in America, doesn't preach about not turning the ball over?

Our fans are so stupid.

[DirkPiggler]

Someone may come back with "we fumbled more because we ran the ball a lot more you dumb fuck."

To that I counter with these teams, which were run first, run second, run third, and pretty much run always:

2003:  1.0 (71st)
2004:  0.5 (21st)*
2005:  0.6 (23rd)
2006:  0.5 (14th)
2007:  1.1 (96th)

*this includes one fumble that we know definitively cost us a victory and an above .500 season

[Spiderham]

I see the results.  As a former Army officer, my experience matches the naval officer's.  This is a slack organization and that always starts at the top.

So opinion but no actual knowledge. 
Got it. 

[Spiderham]

I think a lot of Alabama fans would agree they haven't been well coached this year.  9-3 with that talent is probably equivalent to 6-6 with ours. 

Yet that same Alabama coach had his team in the national championship game last year and they looked pretty damn well coached. 

[The Whyte Boar]

So opinion but no actual knowledge.
Got it.

No, I can see by the results what is going on.  Kind of like when a doctor makes a diagnosis on a patient by looking at the symptoms.  It ain't rocket science no matter how much some of you want to pretend it is.

[Usafhawg]

Yet that same Alabama coach had his team in the national championship game last year and they looked pretty damn well coached.

You do realize that Saban retired, right?

[DirkPiggler]

You do realize that Saban retired, right?

You do realize that Saban didn't coach in the national championship game last year, but the current Alabama coach did, right?

[Spiderham]

No, I can see by the results what is going on.  Kind of like when a doctor makes a diagnosis on a patient by looking at the symptoms.  It ain't rocket science no matter how much some of you want to pretend it is.

So Sam is lazy because the results are not  good?  No other options like subpar talent, misses on assistant coaches, misses on portal linemen, etc. 
Since you have no actual inside knowledge, only your opinion based on the results, Sam could be working his ass off and not lazy at all but still getting results that equal our average results since joining the SEC  

Not blasting you, I'm just tired of the "Sam is lazy" talking points from folks who have no actual knowledge about what goes on in the building. 
You just don't know. 

[Spiderham]

You do realize that Saban retired, right?

[Barton Fink]

No, I can see by the results what is going on.  Kind of like when a doctor makes a diagnosis on a patient by looking at the symptoms.  It ain't rocket science no matter how much some of you want to pretend it is.

You should be a coach. Or, a doctor.

[The Whyte Boar]

So Sam is lazy because the results are not  good?  No other options like subpar talent, misses on assistant coaches, misses on portal linemen, etc.
Since you have no actual inside knowledge, only your opinion based on the results, Sam could be working his ass off and not lazy at all but still getting results that equal our average results since joining the SEC 

Not blasting you, I'm just tired of the "Sam is lazy" talking points from folks who have no actual knowledge about what goes on in the building.
You just don't know.

Turnover and penalties and penalties especially are the symptoms of a slipshod bumblefuck coaching staff that does not demand accountability.  We've seen it over and over.  It starts at the top.  It ain't rocket science.

[Feral]

I don't mean this as a shot at anyone, but it's simply amazing to me that we have fans making excuses for Pittman after going 10-14 the last 2 years (17-20 the last 3) and fielding one of the sloppiest football teams in the country in the process.

Are our standards just that low now?

In the last 3 years, Pittman is:
0-3 vs Mizzou
0-3 vs Texas A&M
0-3 vs LSU
1-2 vs Mississippi State
1-2 vs Ole Miss
1-2 vs P5 OOC opponents

Since 2022, 7 of his wins have come against UAB, Louisiana Tech, UAPB, Missouri State, Western Carolina, Kent State, and FIU.

Since 2022, he's 7-17 in the SEC.