2022/2023 Razorback Basketball

[Son of Spam]

The portal is a weird deal to me. You have guys hit the portal. Does that mean they weren't good enough to get playing time at the school they are transferring from or they were good and just want another team? If they aren't good enough to get time with a school, what makes you think they will be good enough if you get them? Isn't it kind of hit or miss...like the same thing that happens when you get a 5* HS kid who turns into a bust at the college level? I realize some transfers help a lot, but not all of them. Seems like most NC winners had guys stay and play together 3-4 years. Now the one and dones are taking over.

[jdcatty]

All teams utilize the portal, yes, but they don't completely turn over the roster year-to-year like Muss does.

Look at UConn. 85 percent of their roster was guys they recruited out of high school/prep school. Only Calcaterra and Alleyne contributed out of the portal.

Same with Kansas the year before. Remy Martin was only contributor out of the portal. Baylor in '21, they were the one team in the portal era that predominantly had portal guys contributing heavily.

I am afraid this is the correct analysis.  Teams with high turnover may win a lot of games for a year, but they will seldom if ever win a National Championship.  Just look at Kentucky, even before the portal, with all their one-and-dones.    He may get them to the NBA, but I want to win another NC.

[Lurk]

Yeah but 2 out of 3 champions weren't portal-heavy. Muss has a proven formula, yes, but it would help to have some continuity on the roster as well. Other than Devo he hasn't returned anyone hardly.

It's not his fault 3 freshmen went pro. 

[animal]

The portal is a weird deal to me. You have guys hit the portal. Does that mean they weren't good enough to get playing time at the school they are transferring from or they were good and just want another team? If they aren't good enough to get time with a school, what makes you think they will be good enough if you get them? Isn't it kind of hit or miss...like the same thing that happens when you get a 5* HS kid who turns into a bust at the college level? I realize some transfers help a lot, but not all of them. Seems like most NC winners had guys stay and play together 3-4 years. Now the one and dones are taking over.

It's a mixed bag. For the vast majority of these guys it's about finding a better opportunity for playing time. For some it may be a cash grab now days with some back channel talk suggesting to a kid that he could get paid bigly by jumping in the portal (some do, many do not), others are coming from smaller situations where they excelled and are getting a chance to do it at the highest level.

I think the main thing we are seeing is both the roster management and player's perspective is treating this like it's free agency. Our staff is very much comfortable in throwing together a mini G-league team each season. Football is obviously far more hit and miss, if someone like Deion proves you can flip the fuck out of a roster in one off-season then it's going to turn this shit on it's ear in a hurry.

[jdcatty]

Everyone says "Muss has a system" and I agree.  Not really sure what that system is designed to do, though.  Win a national championship or put a lot of players in the pros?

I'm not a Muss hater so don't bother with that shit.  I just think that is a legitimate question.

[rzrbkfan69]

Everyone says "Muss has a system" and I agree.  Not really sure what that system is designed to do, though.  Win a national championship or put a lot of players in the pros?

I'm not a Muss hater so don't bother with that shit.  I just think that is a legitimate question.

I'm sure he would tell you that it's designed to do both.

[vegashog]

elite 8, elite 8, and sweet 16.

how anyone can have any doubt that the guy doesn't want to win a natty instead of just putting guys in the nba is beyond me.

[Doc Hogaday]

It's not his fault 3 freshmen went pro. 

Exactly. It's like some of you all of a sudden want us to recruit shittier players so they won't leave immediately. But then you also can't accept that the "shittier" players (which are still top 100 guys) aren't getting PT b/c Muss can bring in a few better, immediate contributor guys from the portal every offseason. Pick a fucking lane.

It's his job to put the best product he can on the floor from one year to the next. It's a brave new world out there. And no he hasn't won a championship yet but he's damn well sure navigating this as well as anybody else.

[DirkPiggler]

Everyone says "Muss has a system" and I agree.  Not really sure what that system is designed to do, though.  Win a national championship or put a lot of players in the pros?

I'm not a Muss hater so don't bother with that shit.  I just think that is a legitimate question.

It's just too early in the new environment to judge one way or the other.  I think Muss is learning on the fly. 

[jdcatty]

It's just too early in the new environment to judge one way or the other.  I think Muss is learning on the fly. 

You are right.  We will learn for sure

[jdcatty]

I'm sure he would tell you that it's designed to do both.

Beginning to wonder if that is possible.

[vegashog]

so musselman took the program to the elite eight for the first time in 25 years but because he hasn't won a national championship in his first four years there are doubts about his methods?

[jdcatty]

so musselman took the program to the elite eight for the first time in 25 years but because he hasn't won a national championship in his first four years there are doubts about his methods?

Yeah, it's crazy I know.  But in this day and age, a coach doesn't have long to prove himself.  I am certainly in favor of giving Muss more time don't get me wrong. But from a long range standpoint, you have to consider where the college game is and how to get to the top.

[flash23]

Rumor has it that his horse riding announcement was not premature having not sat down and discussed future with the coaching staff first.

Dunning's too? I guess all players are on one year contracts, basically.

[Silence Of The Hams]

Yeah, it's crazy I know.  But in this day and age, a coach doesn't have long to prove himself.  I am certainly in favor of giving Muss more time don't get me wrong. But from a long range standpoint, you have to consider where the college game is and how to get to the top.

In my opinion he has proven himself 😀 

But with any system its still gonna be hard to win a championship

[animal]

@jdcatty 

Just admit you stepped in #2 and leave it at that. Your argument is just stupid.

@ALL

There are over 300 schools that are technically eligible to win a natty each season. Out of those 300 it's more realistically 150 schools with a snow balls chance. Still that's a huge number compared to 20 or 30 years ago where there wasn't nearly as much parity. In those days if you weren't a TOP 25 school early in the season you probably weren't shit. That's not to say there wasn't outliers that came along and won it all. I'm sure there was. NC State maybe? That was before I was old enough to remember. System and culture is a huge deal sure...but this is an ever changing landscape of college athletics and the coaches are adjusting as well as the players with their new found freedom.

With the G-league mentality you are probably largely coaching a new group of guys each season. It forces coaches to be creative with roster management and coaching technique. That's the mentality and approach Muss has brought to the Razorbacks with the caveat that he pretty much can be the GM and bring in positions of need and the types of players he thinks he can win with. I don't know what's going on...if I had to guess Muss has walked it back to where he feels he's got a better chance to go deep. Just because he can bring in a bunch of Diaper Dandy's doesn't mean he should. Over the course of the next few seasons perhaps he brings in a couple top tier freshman and continues to mix in with the transfer market.

It's been at the expense of players he had to know were 3 or 4 year guys aka not necessarily pro prospects. I think it stinks but at the end of the day there wasn't much about Dunning or Ford that just jumped out at me. I think both could be eventual good if not great in college. That doesn't mean they get to take up space on the roster. It's shitty but that's just the way it is I guess.

I know like many here I grew up loving to watch college sports not just because of the immediate entertainment of it but as I got older I got to enjoy watching players grow up within the system. Sadly it appears those days are over. If you could guarantee a deep run every 4 or 5 years with rosters loaded with multi-year in-house players I think most would be happy. The current day environment means players are gonna nope out at some point...thems the odds. If you could virtually guarantee roster flips every season means deep runs every season...most people are gonna take that option even if it smells a little on the odds one of these teams fucks around and wins the whole fuckin thing.

[jdcatty]

@jdcatty

Just admit you stepped in #2 and leave it at that. Your argument is just stupid.

@ALL

There are over 300 schools that are technically eligible to win a natty each season. Out of those 300 it's more realistically 150 schools with a snow balls chance. Still that's a huge number compared to 20 or 30 years ago where there wasn't nearly as much parity. In those days if you weren't a TOP 25 school early in the season you probably weren't shit. That's not to say there wasn't outliers that came along and won it all. I'm sure there was. NC State maybe? That was before I was old enough to remember. System and culture is a huge deal sure...but this is an ever changing landscape of college athletics and the coaches are adjusting as well as the players with their new found freedom.

With the G-league mentality you are probably largely coaching a new group of guys each season. It forces coaches to be creative with roster management and coaching technique. That's the mentality and approach Muss has brought to the Razorbacks with the caveat that he pretty much can be the GM and bring in positions of need and the types of players he thinks he can win with. I don't know what's going on...if I had to guess Muss has walked it back to where he feels he's got a better chance to go deep. Just because he can bring in a bunch of Diaper Dandy's doesn't mean he should. Over the course of the next few seasons perhaps he brings in a couple top tier freshman and continues to mix in with the transfer market.

It's been at the expense of players he had to know were 3 or 4 year guys aka not necessarily pro prospects. I think it stinks but at the end of the day there wasn't much about Dunning or Ford that just jumped out at me. I think both could be eventual good if not great in college. That doesn't mean they get to take up space on the roster. It's shitty but that's just the way it is I guess.

I am just asking questions.  But I guess public discourse on these issues are not allowed by some, including you. 

But the "taking up space on the roster" argument is really interesting, considering what we just went through with NSJ.

[Barton Fink]

The part I find most interesting is Muss's rotation and how he manages his roster. We know he's gonna primarily play 8-9 guys. You would think having quality young kids fill 10-13 and have them develop into his system would be a plus.

I'm not knocking Muss. I hate to see us lose quality in state kids, but I hate seeing us lose games far more. My only point is he builds his roster a bit differently than he manages it.

[Hogworth Ballington III]

The part I find most interesting is Muss's rotation and how he manages his roster. We know he's gonna primarily play 8-9 guys. You would think having quality young kids fill 10-13 and have them develop into his system would be a plus.

I'm not knocking Muss. I hate to see us lose quality in state kids, but I hate seeing us lose games far more. My only point is he builds his roster a bit differently than he manages it.

Get out of my head. I was just thinking alongside those same lines this morning. I would think there could be room for two developmental type guys on the bench each year to help ease the transition 2-3 years down the road. Especially if only 9 are going to see any meaningful playing time. I mean I guess fear of injuries might push you to stack the bench with a couple dependable, veteran transfers, but that would still leave room for guys like Ford and Dunning.

Side note, I think I would rather have kept Ford than Pinion. I know that's tantamount to blasphemy, but I liked Ford's mentality (seems to have that dog in him) and work ethic. Pinion might prove to be an all world scorer at some point, but last year he just proved he knew how to stand in a corner real still like and be a liability on defense.

[animal]

Get out of my head. I was just thinking alongside those same lines this morning. I would think there could be room for two developmental type guys on the bench each year to help ease the transition 2-3 years down the road. Especially if only 9 are going to see any meaningful playing time. I mean I guess fear of injuries might push you to stack the bench with a couple dependable, veteran transfers, but that would still leave room for guys like Ford and Dunning.

Side note, I think I would rather have kept Ford than Pinion. I know that's tantamount to blasphemy, but I liked Ford's mentality (seems to have that dog in him) and work ethic. Pinion might prove to be an all world scorer at some point, but last year he just proved he knew how to stand in a corner real still like and be a liability on defense.

Pinion took it to the cup a few times. Maybe you were on crack.