The Mizzou Game Discussion

[The Whyte Boar]

Colin Cowherd used to talk about the importance of a head coach.  He said, and I think he is right, that a head coach makes half a dozen or so decisions a week separate and apart from those he might make on the field that impact the success of a program.  Some of those decisions end up being far more impactful than any made on the field.

I don't see Sam having the intelligence or the drive to handle all that and indeed, the program seems completely rudderless and leaderless.  It's adrift.  There seems to be no plan beyond, "You peons need to give money money." 

[DirkPiggler]

Ole Miss seems to be the most relevant comparison.  Similar program, small state, limited resources relative to blue bloods, etc.

When they were going at or below .500 every year with a career OL coach who was a good guy with decent staff, they didn't just throw money at him to get better players.  Their power structure correctly assessed that Luke wasn't doing what he could with what he had, and brought in someone they thought would do better.  It wasn't without risk...Kiffin had failed at a powerhouse before.  There was no guarantee lane would be any better.

Even when they got Kiffin, they didn't shell out huge sums for players right away.  He had to prove himself and his program worthy of investment.  Once he showed he could win a little with normal talent, they ponied up and elevated themselves out of the mediocrity trap.

[Pig Benis]

NIL does not guarantee anything.

How does a program with the most expensive roster in college football (reportedly $20 million in NIL money) lose to a five-loss Michigan team that looked inept most of the season?

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/is-ryan-day-on-the-hot-seat-maybe-not-but-angst-will-only-grow-as-ohio-states-pricey-roster-falls-flat/

Clearly it was their coordinators fault.

[Pig Benis]

Does everyone agree we have significant disadvantages in recruiting? (especially HS)

It's also well known that we have one of the poorest NIL collectives in the SEC.

Given those 2 things, if you agree with them, what are your expectations?

To me, given those 2 things we are a 6-9 win program tops. I don't care who your head coach is. You are not gonna compete at an elite level unless you can match the talent of your opponent every week.

After 32 years in the SEC we are a 6 win program. That's reality. That is not gonna change until something DRASTICALLY changes.

I agree with all of this except that it absolutely matters who the coach is. Your points about NIL/talent are valid but it doesn't mean shit with out a good to great head coach, not just coordinators.

[Barton Fink]

Deion wouldn't even answer our call  unless you pay more in NIL than CU does Who is ready to open up their pockets for Coach Prime? No one. We're cheap.

Look, you guys are convinced SP needs to go and I agree he's not a game changer. I do believe the guy calling plays is and can overcompensate for SP's shortcomings.

I just hope if we do make a change you guys open up your pocketbooks and contribute to NIL. Otherwise, we're gonna get the same results.

[Pig Benis]

I think if there is no better plan in the works (spoiler alert: we are Arkansas, and there is not) you have to get rid of Sam and promote Bobby to HC. Assuming he wants it and that it can be legally done. There's been so much nonsense about that I don't know who to believe, but if they want to, I'm sure there is a way to work around it.

Bobby will bring discipline if he is in charge. If a player keeps fumbling, their ass will be on the bench. If Green is not better than Singleton or KJ Jackson during spring ball and fall camp, fuck Fletcher's money, Bobby won't play favorites. Players will finally fear the head coach again and that is what we need right now.

He is not washed yet. Hell, we are 4th in the fucking nation in total YPG among P4 schools. With THIS offensive line and THESE players. If you don't see the players we have running wide open and still just completely miss it because of an R-word quarterback, I can't help you. And who knows where we'd be without missing those big plays...much less leading the fucking nation in fumbles?

Rhetorical, I guess...9-3 or better.

Yes, he was blessed with an incredible class coming out of Arkansas high schools in 2008. That's not happening this year. But he always had a gift here for finding rare gems in 3-star talent elsewhere due to a lot of things (measurables, comparing players vs the level of talent they were playing in HS, some other shit, things of that nature) he would explain during those old "Signing Day in the Rock" deals they held. And the portal is a whole new world for him finding those types of guys among G5 schools and maybe a couple of other kids like Drew Sanders or Sorey that are good and just want to get playing time. That wasn't a thing when he was back at Louisville.

Spend the majority of NIL money on the line on both sides of the ball and let BP find us some skill positions.

Next year is going to be tough for anyone. Saban or Urban Meyer could show up tomorrow and we would still struggle to get bowl eligible with next year's schedule.

ANY consistency (as much or as little as that means in the current landscape of CFB) would go a Long way. Hiring Odom and him keeping Bobby on would help some with that, but I'm not sure that excites anyone or increases NIL or enhances recruiting/portaling.

It was a play by the PTB to band-aid the apathy that was there last year by hiring Bobby as OC. I am unsure that there is a better move on the table right now than for them to do the same by making him HC this year.

I hope there is but this is all I gots. Next year's coaching carousel is going to be brutal, and we'll be nobody's darling after our 2025 schedule.

That was a helluva post. I think hiring BP would also increase NIL donations simply because he would garner excitement from those who remember the glory days. The problem is that I think BP really doesn't want to do it again.

[Barton Fink]

I agree with all of this except that it absolutely matters who the coach is. Your points about NIL/talent are valid but it doesn't mean shit with out a good to great head coach, not just coordinators.

I'm not gonna say it doesn't matter but I think if your coach is a figurehead (like SP) it doesn't matter as much as it used to. Players spend 90% of their time with coordinators and coaches are less impactful in recruiting with NIL.

[DirkPiggler]

Deion wouldn't even answer our call  unless you pay more in NIL than CU does Who is ready to open up their pockets for Coach Prime? No one. We're cheap.

Look, you guys are convinced SP needs to go and I agree he's not a game changer. I do believe the guy calling plays is and can overcompensate for SP's shortcomings.

I just hope if we do make a change you guys open up your pocketbooks and contribute to NIL. Otherwise, we're gonna get the same results.

Just because our wealthiest boosters won't give more to Sam doesn't mean that they wouldn't give more to a better coach.  You keep stating as fact that we won't pay more when history in other sports shows we absolutely will. 

I suspect a good bit of Prime's NIL comes from national sources that would follow him wherever he went.  He was getting NIL deals for his kids at Jackson State for God's sakes. 

[Barton Fink]

So you would want him as our coach? 

Better yet,   going back to my question earlier that no one answered, who is everyone's pick for a replacement and how is he gonna make us better?

[animal]

What you seem to be missing is that you can't have one (the extra money to bring in the talent) without the other (hiring the better coach). 

What if we launched a social media campaign explaining that no actually SP doesn't really suck...just the cheap ass fans.

[buff2.0]

What if we launched a social media campaign explaining that no actually SP doesn't really suck...just the cheap ass fans.

At this point they could just copy/paste Barton's posts.  It wouldn't help anything, but he's simping so hard it would make Chuck Barrett blush.

[FNG]

Of course, elite football teams require excellent coaching and a deep roster of excellent athletes--particularly at the skill positions but even a mediocre coaching staff and 3 star athletes at skill positions can have decent, 8+ wins/year teams as long as they have excellent linemen.

If I was King of the Razorbacks, I would do whatever it took to secure 2-deep SEC/NFL athletes on both sides of the line. Lean on/blackmail big money boosters to sell that second vacation home, private jet or third Mercedes. Sell a kidney, raffle tickets, Girl Scout cookies or meth. Hell, sell Girl Scouts; just do whatever it takes to buy an O-line that can consistently open holes and protect the QB without a plethora of procedure/holding penalties and a D-line that can stop the run and make QB's moan when the helmet calls a pass play.

Do that consistently and the elite skill players will come. Throw in a competent coaching staff at some point and you just might have a championship team if Lady Luck favors you.

But start with the linemen.

[Thin Red Swine]

So you would want him as our coach? 

Better yet,   going back to my question earlier that no one answered, who is everyone's pick for a replacement and how is he gonna make us better?

I'd take Deion over Sam. At least there's some passion there. And there are plenty of others I'd take over Sam for the reason. I want a coach who does more than go through the motions. One who holds players accountable for their mistakes - fix the issue or ride pine, no matter who it is.  I want a coach who doesn't openly on national TV bemoan the fact we have Blue Light Special players when he's the guy responsible for getting better.

None of us have the time or access to conduct a search to find the right guy so it's really not possible to answer. But they're out there. How did Indiana identify Cignetti?

[Pig Benis]

Can someone tell me why FSU was in the playoffs last year and is 2-10 this year?

Same staff. Same coaching. Completely different results.

Yes. They spent a bunch of money again but made horrible evaluations. Goes back to that whole coaching thing.

[Barton Fink]

At this point they could just copy/paste Barton's posts.  It wouldn't help anything, but he's simping so hard it would make Chuck Barrett blush.

You're obviously right it won't do anything.

Again, for uptenth time I'm not saying SP is a great HC. I'm saying we could very easily win more games than we are if BP and TWill were given better talent. No one has even attempted to argue that.

Hate for SP > winning more games

[Barton Fink]

Yes. They spent a bunch of money again but made horrible evaluations. Goes back to that whole coaching thing.

So they won more games because they had better players. Thx for agreeing with me.

[buff2.0]

Sam is a loser.  Sam will not allow Bobby to resurrect BMFP for fear of hurt feelings.  Sam needs to go.  The administration is happy blaming fans instead of themselves.  They need to go too.  Jerry Jones has no fucking clue how to hire a good coach, so he should be left out of the next discussion.  His money doesn't do shit for us.

[Spiderham]

Ole Miss seems to be the most relevant comparison.  Similar program, small state, limited resources relative to blue bloods, etc.

When they were going at or below .500 every year with a career OL coach who was a good guy with decent staff, they didn't just throw money at him to get better players.  Their power structure correctly assessed that Luke wasn't doing what he could with what he had, and brought in someone they thought would do better.  It wasn't without risk...Kiffin had failed at a powerhouse before.  There was no guarantee lane would be any better.

Even when they got Kiffin, they didn't shell out huge sums for players right away.  He had to prove himself and his program worthy of investment.  Once he showed he could win a little with normal talent, they ponied up and elevated themselves out of the mediocrity trap.

Ole Miss and Arkansas are similar with one HUGE exception. Mississippi has more than twice the number of HS football players than Arkansas and turns out FBS signees at a much higher rate than Arkansas does.  (They split it among State, and Southern Miss but also border very productive states).
I went down to #30 on this list to show Missouri.  They are getting it done with less.  

STATES RANKED BY PERCENTAGE OF FBS SIGNEES

[th]State[/th] [th]FBS Signees[/th] [th]Players[/th] [th]Ratio[/th]
1. Florida	389	40,606	1 in 104
2. Georgia	248	32,979	1 in 133
3. Louisiana	132	20,087	1 in 152
4. Hawaii	22	4,258	1 in 194
5. Utah	35	8,638	1 in 247
6. Alabama	89	22,841	1 in 257
7. Mississippi	83	22,300	1 in 269
8. Maryland/D.C.	55	15,662	1 in 285
9. Ohio	135	44,431	1 in 329
1o. Tennessee	67	23,003	1 in 343
11. California	289	103,474	1 in 358
12. Texas	459	164,554	1 in 359
13. Virginia	68	24,954	1 in 367
14. Arkansas	29	10,977	1 in 379
15. Oklahoma	37	14,615	1 in 395
16. South Carolina	49	19,543	1 in 399
17. Pennsylvania	64	26,100	1 in 408
18. New Jersey	64	26,138	1 in 408
19. North Carolina	83	36,273	1 in 437
20. Kansas	30	13,959	1 in 465
21. Indiana	43	21,760	1 in 506
22. Arizona	39	20,019	1 in 513
23. Michigan	77	39,963	1 in 519
24. Nevada	12	6,580	1 in 548
25. Connecticut	18	10,158	1 in 564
26. Kentucky	23	13,788	1 in 599
27. Delaware	5	3,019	1 in 604
28. Illinois	74	47,068	1 in 636
29. Colorado	20	15,357	1 in 768
30. Missouri	29	23,257	1 in 802

[Barton Fink]

Can someone please post a fucking recipe so I can be distracted?

[Barton Fink]

Missouri is paying more in NIL. They out paid us for Crutchfield last year. They also passed a law that if a kid commits to Mizzou they can profit from NIL in HS.